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OLED, Not for Me

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Re: OLED, Not for Me

#141

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

chatmasta wrote: post #25

Dell monitors are very hit or miss for me. I’ve got two with very similar model numbers to the OP. One of them has a straight vertical line of red pixels at (30%, 0%). The other doesn’t have an integrated webcam. Meanwhile I’ve got an MSI OLED 32” 240Hz @ 4k monitor which was super expensive but is absolutely incredible. It takes getting used to a monitor that performs a maintenance routine on itself any time you lea…

What are you comparing? I only ever bought Dell Ultrasharps (Dell U).

The article also compares a budget display Dell S (OLED) vs higher end Dell U.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#142

Post by beagle3 »

balou23 wrote: post #130
ksec wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Friend on a 30Hz Phone Screen because of battery saving mode said the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz is so minor, that in "In practice, it's been unnoticeable." At one point in time 95%+ of HN comments were cheering on about Atom the text editor and later VSCode as being fast enough or unnoticeable. When Sublime user are baffled as to why. And Sublime isn't the fastest text editor either before Zed came out. Yes…

At some point there were LCD monitors that had very noticeable to me chequerboard pattern - like with analogue TV, only half of the screen got lit up/refreshed, but with an alternating pattern rather than scan lines. After asking the owner of said screen how he could stand that... "stand what?" Yep, I guess most people are not that picky.

It’s not necessarily picky - it’s sometimes about physically different perception.

When DLP projectors first came out, I couldn’t watch them. I would see colors breaking in fast motion scenes and whenever I would move my head even slightly (and … we all move our head slightly often when watching a movie).

When I told other people, some of them nodded in understanding, but the vast majority thought I was making things up - for them, it was a rock solid picture.

One of my friends replied: “I can see about 300hz. Not all the time - only when I have secadic movements; but that means many fluorescents, DLPs and other light sources drive me crazy. I guess you’re also a member of crazy club”

Some people can hear 26khz. Some people can see DLPs. Some people can see the alternating pattern….

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#143

Post by badsectoracula »

aappleby wrote: post #31
theshackleford wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In practice for me, it's been unnoticeable. You act like being able to see this a minority opinion, it’s not, and it’s a known issue. And you don’t need to be sitting close, or using a tiny font to notice it. My 4K OLED is noticeably less clear compared to an IPS display and I’d never use it for productivity as a result, because why would I willingly subject myself to an objectively worse experience?

It's a tradeoff - if you want a fast clear gaming monitor with pure blacks, you get an OLED. If you want the clearest text and are OK with middling response time, you get an IPS.

There is also VA which provides deep (though not pure) blacks, clear text and decent response time though you get some slight smearing on high contrast edges.

Personally i prefer VA to IPS by far because IPS looks washed out to me.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#144

Post by c0nsumer »

mathisd wrote: post #124

Author doesn't mention it but he should try to use BetterDisplay. MacOS interface scaling works well for screens around 200 PPI (2K 13inch, 4K 24inch, 5K 27inch). 4K 32inch is 138 PPI, which likely means he is not using default interface scaling which causes some distortion and out of grid pixel rendering. BetterDisplay fixes this by using an integer multiple of intended GUI scaling resolution before projecting it (3…

(Author here.)

I actually am using it, but I didn't want to go down the rabbithole of an all-encompassing article on displays, PPI, scaling, etc. Using it to scale the display really helps, but I find that for the size of things I like 3008x1692 (on a native 3840x2160 panel) and this looks fine on an LCD. And is better than native res on the OLED, but still not great. It still bugged my eyes.

I just went with native res for demoing things because it's a worst-case, but the fringing problem, because it affects all strong-contrast edges not just text. It was also really noticeable at thin/narrow lines such as when doing CAD or between cells in spreadsheets.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#145

Post by quitit »

If your job involves detailed text review (such as coding) then splash out on a display with a pixel density of at least 250 PPI.

The screen shown in this blog looks like it's ~140 PPI. Sure these screens are cheap, but they're best used for moving graphical content.

In the demonstration image the text is just 9 pixels tall, while thatis legible, it is unacceptable for long term reading and is completely reliant on subpixel rendering to produce an impression of smoothness.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#146

Post by c0nsumer »

skullt wrote: post #80
aappleby wrote: post #18

This guy is complaining about fringing...on 9- and 10-pixel high fonts. That works out to 1.6mm or 1.8mm high characters on a 140 dpi screen, or about 1/16 of an inch. He's also got Cleartype on and set to RGB stripe even though the OLED is not RGB stripe (though to be fair, Windows doesn't really make it clear what each page of the ClearType tuner does). But yeah, if you use a _tiny_ font and sit _really_ close to t…

> He's also got Cleartype on and set to RGB stripe even though the OLED is not RGB stripe (though to be fair, Windows doesn't really make it clear what each page of the ClearType tuner does). I doubt it's Cleartype, the close up photo of the U3223QE show all subpixels uniformly dimmed on the fringes. The post also says the monitor is attached to a Mac mini and a previous post about OpenSCAD has a screenshot with MacO…

Yep -- you've got it exactly. macOS and no Cleartype.

Had I been using this on Windows I would have started to solve it by trying to tune that.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#147

Post by c0nsumer »

kstenerud wrote: post #50
theshackleford wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In practice for me, it's been unnoticeable. You act like being able to see this a minority opinion, it’s not, and it’s a known issue. And you don’t need to be sitting close, or using a tiny font to notice it. My 4K OLED is noticeably less clear compared to an IPS display and I’d never use it for productivity as a result, because why would I willingly subject myself to an objectively worse experience?

Whether it's a minority opinion or not, I really can't see the difference. Even when he posted highly zoomed images of VS Code ("Visual Studio Code does a wonderful job demonstrating this problem"), the only thing I noticed is that the image on the right looks slightly brighter than the image on the left. Then as I went back to where he was describing the problem ("fringing"), I kept forgetting when I scrolled back t…

(Author here.)

That's an interesting point you mention about not seeing it, because prior to buying an OLED I'd read a bunch about fringing and in many articles I just... couldn't see it. I couldn't tell what was being illustrated in the images.

It wasn't until I sat in front of one for a few hours, in my room and lighting and with my apps and had funny-feeling eyes and a this-seems-off feeling that I decided to investigate. And yes, those macro photos show fringing, but it /is/ hard to understand how the subpixel pattern translates to on-screen weirdness until you've seen it for yourself.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#148

Post by WilcoKruijer »

quitit wrote: post #145

If your job involves detailed text review (such as coding) then splash out on a display with a pixel density of at least 250 PPI. The screen shown in this blog looks like it's ~140 PPI. Sure these screens are cheap, but they're best used for moving graphical content. In the demonstration image the text is just 9 pixels tall, while thatis legible, it is unacceptable for long term reading and is completely reliant on s…

Totally agree. I’ve been using the Asus ProArt PA32QCV (6k monitor) for the past few months, and it has been great for coding. It’s about 220 PPI, or what Apple calls “retina”.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#149

Post by c0nsumer »

namuol wrote: post #27

The issue is with font rendering software not properly accounting for the subpixel arrangement of the display. I guess it’s a valid concern from a simple pragmatic perspective as a consumer, but as an enthusiast it’s not strictly a problem with OLED. Surely there’s some work out there that tries to improve font rendering on nonuniform subpixel layouts, right?

(Author here.)

The other issue is that it's not just a text problem. It affects any high color contrast edges, especially directly vertical or horizontal ones. So subpixel rendering tweaks for text rendering (eg: Cleartype) don't solve the whole problem.

Re: OLED, Not for Me

#150

Post by joeig »

mathisd wrote: post #124

Author doesn't mention it but he should try to use BetterDisplay. MacOS interface scaling works well for screens around 200 PPI (2K 13inch, 4K 24inch, 5K 27inch). 4K 32inch is 138 PPI, which likely means he is not using default interface scaling which causes some distortion and out of grid pixel rendering. BetterDisplay fixes this by using an integer multiple of intended GUI scaling resolution before projecting it (3…

Thank you. BetterDisplay is exactly what I need for my 4K 32 inch screen.
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