A closed source wrapper around a web view? I have to advise that no one install, never mind use, this closed source, proprietary blob. Especially not for anything confidential like banking, health, etc.
Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
141–150 of 325 posts
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#142This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason…
> Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser Don't forget about https://falkon.org . It's a browser I enjoy using. WebExtension support will be big if it lands in Orion though. EDIT: apparently Orion is not open source. Not particularly interested in a closed source browser, TBH. In 2022 they said they plan to open source "when there is merit"[1], whatever that me…
Same for me. Using a proprietary browser is not quite as bad as using a proprietary OS, but it is a distant second. Hopefully they figure out whatever merit they are waiting for...
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#143Nice. But I stopped using Orion on macOS when they stopped offering complete offline installers. They taut they are a zero-telemetry browser, as proof that they are privacy conscious about user data, and that was a good feature and overture. But then when they create technical avenues to (possibly) bypass that (like using online installers that can do all kind of data collection) it becomes harder to trust them as it…
> online installers that can do all kind of data collection "Can" is doing a lot of work here. A browser's whole purpose is to be online, after all. If they were trying to collect information about you, they really don't need the installer to be the thing that does it. It would be an impressive reversal of their whole premise as a business if their browser's installer was the piece that was violating your privacy and…
> If they were trying to collect information about you, they really don't need the installer to be the thing that does it.
They do, if they are being duplicitous about their intent to not harvest user data.
If their browser was a data harvester from the get go, no one who is aware, and worried, about surveillance capitalism would have bothered to use it. And note that they had no problem in offering offline installers in the beginning. Now, once their base has grown, if they have a malicious intent (now or in the future), they can use the online installers to gather our personal data surreptitiously - for example, by profiling our hardware and (if you already had Orion installed) our settings, our bookmarks, our browser history etc. and use that commercially. It also allows them to install unwanted software on our computer in the future (I don't know if you are old enough to know - look up the browser toolbars era).
If their intent to respect a user's privacy is honest, offering an offline installer shouldn't be a big deal. (As far as I am aware, apart from Apple Safari, they are now the only browser that don't offer an offline installer).
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#144It seems weird to run a closed-source browser on an open-source operating system when so many open alternatives exist—I certainly wouldn’t do it, and I’m a Kagi customer. Does Kagi plan to open-source Orion on Linux?
Kagi founder here. Orion isn't open source yet primarily because we're a 5-person team that spent 6+ years building this and created significant IP doing so, and we're not in a position to defend our work against a well-funded company using it as a base (we care very much about the business model of the browser surviving). Restrictive licenses help in theory but enforcing them against a company with a larger legal bu…
What is the UI SDK used for Windows version?
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
We like Linux adoption around these parts. But don't we like it because linux doesn't let companies mistreat it's users? If users are unwilling to opt out of that abuse then I think its OK that their migration to Linux remains mildly inconvenient.
DRM sucks, but the time to thrash against it is has passed. It's here, it's not going away, and users expect to be able to use their browsers to watch protected content.
I've never let Firefox play content requiring DRM. I don't thrash against it, just ignore it.
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#146It seems weird to run a closed-source browser on an open-source operating system when so many open alternatives exist—I certainly wouldn’t do it, and I’m a Kagi customer. Does Kagi plan to open-source Orion on Linux?
Kagi founder here. Orion isn't open source yet primarily because we're a 5-person team that spent 6+ years building this and created significant IP doing so, and we're not in a position to defend our work against a well-funded company using it as a base (we care very much about the business model of the browser surviving). Restrictive licenses help in theory but enforcing them against a company with a larger legal bu…
earlier in the thread I read nhe plan was to release the source "when it has merit" But that instantly left me with the feeling that the authors of the browser, and I have very different opinions on what the word merit means. Such that they would be incompatible, and I'd never want to use it. This is a decision that has lowered my opinion about exactly how much I can trust Kagi.
> Kagi founder here. Orion isn't open source yet primarily because we're a 5-person team that spent 6+ years building this and created significant IP doing so,
But it's possible I haven't considered some detail where I might agree it's reasonable. Can you describe or offer any insight into the "significant IP" that you need to protect and defend? What threats from a larger company are you primarily concerned about?
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#147It seems weird to run a closed-source browser on an open-source operating system when so many open alternatives exist—I certainly wouldn’t do it, and I’m a Kagi customer. Does Kagi plan to open-source Orion on Linux?
It seems weird to worry more about that than about the Chromium hegemony to where Chromium is becoming the only way to move money online.
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kagi founder here. Orion isn't open source yet primarily because we're a 5-person team that spent 6+ years building this and created significant IP doing so, and we're not in a position to defend our work against a well-funded company using it as a base (we care very much about the business model of the browser surviving). Restrictive licenses help in theory but enforcing them against a company with a larger legal bu…
Enjoying Orion with uBlock on the iPhone, thanks for making it work!
uBO is not technically working on Orion for iOS. We do not have permissions to run certain web extension APIs on iOS needed for uBO feature set. The adblocking you witness is thanks to built in native adblocker in Orion.
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#149This is a healthy thing to happen to the Linux browser ecosystem imho. We talk a lot about browser diversity, but on Linux and Windows, it is a lie. You have firefox (gecko) and fifty flavors of chromium. Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser, which I'll admit while is a noble effort, lags a bit in the stability and power-user features department. Big reason…
> Webkit on Linux has essentially been relegated to embedded devices or the GNOME epiphany browser Don't forget about https://falkon.org . It's a browser I enjoy using. WebExtension support will be big if it lands in Orion though. EDIT: apparently Orion is not open source. Not particularly interested in a closed source browser, TBH. In 2022 they said they plan to open source "when there is merit"[1], whatever that me…
Falkon uses QtWebEngine, essentially a Chromium (Blink&V8) wrapper. QupZilla, its predecessor, was using QtWebKit. Otter & kbd-driven qutebrowser (two other Qt browsers) for time, and maybe still do, simultaneously supported both.
Re: Kagi releases alpha version of Orion for Linux
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a major sticking point for most people though and a very large blocker for wider Linux desktop adoption.
We like Linux adoption around these parts. But don't we like it because linux doesn't let companies mistreat it's users? If users are unwilling to opt out of that abuse then I think its OK that their migration to Linux remains mildly inconvenient.
Agreed.
My take is: you're welcome to the party, but don't be surprised if someone shows you the door when you pull out the drugs. It ain't our type of fun.
I understand various reasons why people are pushing for the adoption of open source software, but it will be counterproductive if it brings the problems of the commercial software world with them.