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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#141

Post by jna_sh »

Fnoord wrote: post #133
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

Having any hacker conference in the USA is a political choice, because it deters any non-US citizen from entry. The bars to enter the USA are high, including the coercion to hand over your accounts from social media.

I’m not sure you think otherwise, and are just calling on the US as an example since the HN crowd is heavily US skewed, but just for the avoidance of doubt, this is a German event.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#142

Post by pinkgolem »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #136
pinkgolem wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked surveillance talk has nearly 0 references to computers and is all about media/reporting

> The linked surveillance talk has nearly 0 references to computers and is all about media/reporting (link to the talk: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8969-die_sprache_der_uberwacher ) Surveillance has relevance to core CCC/hacking topics (privacy is a central topic against which hackers fight), so I can understand why the organisers decided to include this talk in the schedule: they considered it to be a good idea that…

> Surveillance has relevance to core CCC/hacking topics (privacy is a central topic against which hackers fight)

Great, who exactly is making those rules for all hackers?

People have complained about this for atleast the last 15 years where I have been active, to political, not political enough.

Stop complaining, start creating.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#143

Post by monerozcash »

pinkgolem wrote: post #120
monerozcash wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it is unarguably much more boring stuff than it was years ago. I attend almost every Congress with a variety of groups, and there's certainly been a culture shift over the years from lots of anarchists who had no qualms with breaking the law to much more corporate scaredy-cats. Congress seems to keep growing so perhaps this is just serving a broader audience. But knowing a lot of long-time attendees, I'm ce…

Love that you complain about not enough people breaking the law and somewhere below complains about to many people breaking the law Let's be real, the videos get far to much eyes to break the law. There are smaller talks and groups where it looks different.

I'm not just referring to the talks, but the whole event. But we used to have groups like wikileaks heavily featured, they certainly weren't worried about too many eyeballs.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#144

Post by flawn »

Sol- wrote: post #134
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

The shape of the politics changed, though. From civil rights, questioning authority and cypherpunk, which inherently has a libertarian bent, there's now much more identity politics and social justice / grievance culture with only tenuous connections to tech. For a hacker conference, they also are pretty Luddite against new technologies like AI. It's a very conservative degrowth movement nowadays, all in all.

I am happy they are careful with new technologies, especially one like AI, and also set the right impulses. Enough non-political reasons to have that stance, especially taking in societal implications and how technology affects everyone and not just stakeholders and techbros. In a time when tech in the US is just accelerating by the top-down agenda of figures like Andreesen, Thiel & Co., that is very much needed imo.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#145

Post by yc-kraln »

user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

Especially as congress has, for as long as I remember, been about the superset of infosec, society, art, etc. IMHO it's more along the lines of complaining about any ride that isn't a roller coaster at a theme park--no one is forcing you to go on any rides, other people clearly enjoy them, they're not taking anything away from your roller coaster, and having them increases the diversity of the crowd in an ultimately positive-for-everyone way.

Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#147

Post by VierScar »

moltopoco wrote: post #125
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

It seems that no modern comment section is complete without the complaint "too much politics", then followed by "but everything is political". Some talks do not even try to draw a line from politics to computers, and I think that is what people feel unhappy about. https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/... https://fahrplan.events.ccc…

The first two talks are in the "Ethics, Society & Politics" category, and the third in the "Art & Beauty" category. Why would they need to be about computing?

It's a big organisation, and politics is wrapped up in what they do, along with the post-WWII Antifaschism culture in Germany.

Even if it weren't the case, I don't get why attack them for helping stand up for democracy, something in dire need of advocacy these days

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#148

Post by f1shy »

user764743 wrote: post #128
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your arguments. In my opinion the core of the problem is that a lot of the "political" taks are about political topics that are outside the core of the kind of politics (?) that are related to hacking. These talks are what people are complaining about as "too much politics".

That's fine but technology doesn't exist in a vacuum, you can't talk about (for example) facial recognition technology without mentioning the social groups it affects the most or is used against. Same for plenty of others topics directly or indirectly related to hacking and computers. If you look at the history of the CCC, they also don't see a line between technical freedom and social freedom, because you can't have…

Take this as example: https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2025/fahrplan/event/...

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#149

Post by fisf »

meibo wrote: post #63
mdavid626 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture changes, that’s true. However, “change” doesn’t normalize the far left/green initiatives.

CCC always has been explicit far left/green, looking at its history, as other people in here have mentioned. I think it would be fair to say that the club as a whole has become more open about that, I think that's more owed to a lot of folks driving initiatives feeling like the walls are closing in on them though and I can't exactly fault them for that :)

> CCC always has been explicit far left/green, looking at its history, as other people in here have mentioned.

Yes, but what has shifted is "the left", to a point were it has basically been taken over for very specific agendas.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#150

Post by petterroea »

Going to CCC changed my life last year and really opened up my eyes. So sad I'm not able to attend this year, but hoping I am able to return soon. Anyone who understands why technology cannot be viewed in a vacuum without considering the humans who use it will fit in immediately. Do yourself a favor and go.
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