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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

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Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#141

If Mullvad could bother to link to this supposed "Presidency outcome paper" that would be great, after extensive searches on Concilium and eur-lex I have no idea what that is supposed to reference. In any case here's the actual "ProtectEU" text the Comission sent on the first of April which contains most of the text Mullvad is quoting from the "presidency outcome paper": https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT…

I believe it's this one (which is likely leaked document as that document number isn't publicly accessible): https://docs.reclaimthenet.org/eu-data-retention-presidency-...

There's also this one: https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/WK-11640-2025-...

The first one appears to be the result of the of the second which called member states to submit their opinions.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not the best because they no longer support port forwarding. Their IPs are low quality and get you flagged as suspicious.

Are you expecting a public IPv4 from a VPN?

Not a whole public IPv4, just one port on it (or a couple). And the public IP should change every reconnect.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#143
post #17

Until people lobby for these privacy rights to be enshrined in law, this will continue to be a problem. Defeating one bad law isn't enough.

[flagged]

Intent is unimportant; the law itself is authoritarian. And if you think that there aren't nefarious actors waiting in the wings to take advantage of these kinds of laws, I got a bridge I'd like to sell you

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#144
The way to stop it is to introduce a law that does exactly the opposite: that encrypted communication is always protected and should always be protected and that no legislation shall be introduced that weakens these technical guarantees.

That way, it essentially has to do a two step solution, of repealing the previous law that prohibits it, and then introducing their own.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#145
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These should be enshrined into law... and there needs to be some sort of rule to prevent lawmakers from trying to ram through laws with the same spirit without some sort of cool down period. The fact that lawmakers have tried to push the same crap multiple times in the last 4 years despite a ton of opposition and resistance is ridiculous.

People need to do a better job of voting out people who push such laws.

People get all of their information about what's going on in the world from people who are pushing these laws. People who contradict this information are suppressed or actually prosecuted by people who are pushing these laws. That is what these laws are intended to support. There are too many people talking to too many other people.

You need to stop blaming the victims. Europe is banning entire classes of political speech and political parties. It's always been a right they reserved - Europe has never had guarantees of freedom of speech or association, but it used to even have to debate and defend suppressing Nazi speech and parties. Now, they don't: the average middle-class European now finds it a patriotic point of pride to explain how they don't allow the wrong speech in Europe, unlike stupid America. Absolute cows.

If telling people that it's their own fault makes you feel better, you're part of the problem too. Perpetrators love when you blame victims. These garbage institutions of Europe are run by the same elites who have always run Europe, except secularly cleansed of any religious or moral obligation to the public. In America we understand that we would have secular nobles without noblesse oblige, and created a bill of rights. Europe wasn't expecting it and instead "declared" a list of suggestions.

The only thing that keeps me optimistic is how weak the EU actually is, and the tendency of the citizenry of European countries to periodically purge all of their elites simultaneously.

I do have a fear that Gladio permanently lowered Europe's IQ and level of courage, though. Being smart and brave was deadly after WWII.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already MANY laws in the EU and Germany for me regarding privacy. All the proposals are blatantly illegal in Germany for example. Just recently our highest court declared large scale logging of DNS request as "very likely" illegal.

Similarly, the 4th amendment to the US Constitution reads in full: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." "papers, and effec…

I want privacy too but I don't think the 4th amendment is enough. The 4th amendment effectively covers what's in your house. It does not cover people and business outside your house. If you interact with someone else, they also have a right to use/remember the fact that you interacted with them, whether that's your family, friends, or some random business. You call someone on the phone, 3 parties are involved, you, the person you're calling, the company(s) you paid to make the call possible.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#147
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what would you personally consider to be a step too far in the fight against CSAM?

Thank you so much for asking the question instead of assuming an answer. I don't think I have an ideological limit. I'm pro weighing alternatives, and seeing what happens. If law enforcement misuses the tools they are given, we should take them away again, but we shouldn't be afraid to give them tools out of fear of how they might misuse them. I think my limits are around proper governance. Stuff like requiring a war…

The obvious difference is a business (Meta, Google, etc..) can at most refuse to do business with you. The government can throw you in prison. Therefore, it's more important to restrict what the government can do than what business can to.

yea I get a few companies have too much power. That doesn't really change the point except to argue that they too should be more restricted

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#148
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to do a better job of voting out people who push such laws.

Good luck convincing people not to vote for anti-immigration measures and other populist ideas instead.

[dead]

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#149

The way to stop it is to introduce a law that does exactly the opposite: that encrypted communication is always protected and should always be protected and that no legislation shall be introduced that weakens these technical guarantees. That way, it essentially has to do a two step solution, of repealing the previous law that prohibits it, and then introducing their own.

Unfortunately the EU has no 2nd Amendment, or they could go the route of classifying encryption as a munition.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#150
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need to do a better job of voting out people who push such laws.

Good luck convincing people not to vote for anti-immigration measures and other populist ideas instead.

You can absolutely frame enshrining privacy and punishing those who would spy on you in a populist way. The messaging writes itself. The problem is that anti-power populism is considered extremely dangerous and tamped down on far more strongly than the most virulent bigots and fascists.

Populism is how you win votes, but only one form of populism is allowed. For now, at least.

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