Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

euronews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 162 posts

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#141

Post by ryan_lane »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #135
ryan_lane wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the market was allowed to maximally increase rent to the point this person can't afford rent anywhere except for where they live, and the problem is rent control (which NYC has relatively little of)? Why not complain about the high-rises full of empty apartments bought by oligarchs for money laundering? Why not complain about the tens of thousands of airbnb units? NYC is actually quite good in terms of bu…

The problem is he has such a sweet deal, he needs to use the apartment even though he would rather someone else have the apartment. I don't think the goal of rent control is to trap people in a city so they can't leave. There aren't really that many high rises full of empty apartments bought by oligarchs for money laundering in NY. And even when there are - how much land does it actually take up? At the Central Park…

> 180 oligarchs can launder their money in a 200'x200'

The vertical size of that, however, could be used to house at least a thousand (or more) people.

This is mostly a manhattan problem, but there's a quite large volume of the market there (due to the valuations) that are ultra-high-end, which tends to be vacant units used for money laundering. Same issue in a lot of the larger cities.

Luxury taxes (on both the sale, and ongoing yearly costs) can help reduce the problem as well as provide tax income for the cities. It's easily a win/win.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#142

Post by ryan_lane »

nradov wrote: post #138
ryan_lane wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are often no hotel rooms with 3+ beds and kitchenette There are very few hotels with kitchenettes. Most people don't cook (and don't want to cook) on vacation. Most hotels also don't cater to the low-income, and folks who cook on travel tend to be low-income. There's business rentals that offer this, but they're often not bookable for short-terms (usually 2+ weeks minimum). Most hotels can accommodate 5+ peop…

It's not about low-income people. Those needs are actually quite common among upper-middle class American vacation travelers with children so I assume you don't know many of them. Regardless of expense it's a huge hassle to drag multiple small children to a restaurant for three meals per day for a week. For at least some meals it ends up just being a lot easier to heat up something in the hotel room. I am well aware…

Two adults with two children is doable with 2 beds. That's higher than the average number of children for a family in the US at this point. I know plenty of people with children (and I have children myself).

Airbnb probably serves you quite well, but you're a bit of a niche market for the travel industry, so it makes sense why your need isn't generally addressed. Hotels have to maximize their space, and the vast majority of people don't need kitchenettes.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#143

Post by Ekaros »

daedrdev wrote: post #83
embedding-shape wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting rent increase does not mean "Rent can never change", it just means the rate of change is limited. Owners can still raise the prices each year, it's just limited based on a lot of factors, the main one being a local index. But renovating the property for example lets owners raise the rent higher, as just one exception. > People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they hav…

People with high incomes living alone in multi bedroom units objectively should leave. The “right to housing” is a joke when the US essentially makes it illegal to build new units in most areas. Because of that restriction, rent control causes the small number of limited units to be subsided by everyone else paying more, as basic supply and demand dictates

Easy solution is to apply same rent controls to all units. That is everything has limited rent rises.

And this is not unreasonable. If math originally works out, then it will continue to work out. System really should not rely on property price appreciation or arbitrary rent bumps.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#144

Post by dzhiurgis »

friendzis wrote: post #139
dzhiurgis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do like Georgism, but taxing wealth and not a transaction is just going to transfer wealth from poor to government. Similarly how capital gains tax has 0 effect on billionaires and just rip off investors (aka the poorest).

> Similarly how capital gains tax has 0 effect on billionaires and just rip off investors (aka the poorest). Capital gains tax has zero effect on billionaires precisely because it is not levied on them in most cases. When one's total wealth hits high tens of millions suddenly they get access to instruments to use their wealth without triggering "taxable events". Probably the most well-known example are loans against…

Loans needs to be paid off tho...

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#145

Post by dzhiurgis »

ryan_lane wrote: post #129
dzhiurgis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> What does this mean or are you just communist coding your speech? What they were saying is simply common sense. If an airbnb host is buying a local unit and renting it out for high prices to tourists, they're going to buy it for a higher price than someone who's simply there to live, and that's stealing the opportunity for someone to live somewhere within their means. You don't need to be a communist to understand…

But that then applies to any transaction where someone pays higher price. Gentrification? Subdivision? Commercial development? Rezoning? Auction? There's always a chance someone could've lived there for less.

I'd argue Airbnb owner is going to pay far more in taxes than resident.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#146

Post by miguelxt »

ryan_lane wrote: post #137
miguelxt wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities that have almost completely banned Airbnb (e.g.: NYC) have not seen any improvement on affordability. What's next? Housing and rent are already heavily regulated in Spain. Some regulations and side effects of those regulations: * Minimum contract length of 5 years. * Maximum increase of rental per year regulated to 2/3% (even during high inflation years). * It can take years to evict a non-paying tenant. If th…

> Cities that have almost completely banned Airbnb (e.g.: NYC) have not seen any improvement on affordability. What's next? New York, as expensive as it is, is still considerably cheaper than cities like SF. Part of this is that they build more, part of it is that they have a usable train system, which allows people to live more spread out across the city, but part of it as well, is that they've banned airbnb. It wou…

We do agree. The desired objective of the regulations I mentioned is good. It's a good thing to have some stability as a renter, to not be kicked out and on the streets if you have children and cannot pay the rent, or that yearly rent increases are small enough that renters don't feel asfixiated.

However, we should not only consider the stated objective of the law but the real consequences of them. My point is, housing and rents are quite regulated in Spain. More regulation is being added every year as it serves the political and electoral objectives of our leaders, yet the situation is getting worse. Regulation detached from practical realities will fail to reach the desired objectives.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#147

Post by danielscrubs »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

This burden is on politicians. If you can extract enough value from tourism you both lessen the tourism and get people more happy about tourists.

The monetary value has to match the damage it does to have people caring less about the “environment” they are in (gossip puts pressure on people to behave, just like renting puts less pressure on people to take care of their apartment).

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#148

Post by thefz »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

> As long as we tolerate a society that only values ROI while ignoring the value of investing in humanity

Wow, it looks like unbridled capitalism isn't the answer after all.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#149

Post by tpm »

nradov wrote: post #118
MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

The weird thing is that in many cities there is a persistent and ongoing market failure where legitimate hotels in tourist areas often don't offer accommodations suitable for families with multiple children. There are often no hotel rooms with 3+ beds and kitchenette: it's not that they're more expensive, they simply don't exist at any price. So despite the social problems that Airbnb causes they do address a real ma…

Can you name such a city? Even though I'm looking for a queen-bed hotel room I also always get suggested apartment style rooms in hotels (booking.com and similar) that would seem to be suitable in your case, both in Europe and in Asia. Actually in Asia it's more common to have some sort of basic kitchen corner even in small rooms than here in Europe.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#150

Post by s1mplicissimus »

izacus wrote: post #108
givemeethekeys wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is such a burnout, then why doesn’t the government just stop letting so many people in? This feels more like a scapegoat situation.

Whenever you use the phrase "why don't you just", you're almost certainly about to say something utterly dumb and poorly thought out. Stop and think a bit more instead.

Would be interesting to read your opinion on what you think they missed
Post reply on HN