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Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

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Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#141

Post by goosejuice »

dyauspitr wrote: post #128
goosejuice wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solvable yes, but it's a perfect example of it not being solved yet despite this person's anecdotes. Engineering problems aren't limited to a single solution anyhow. Anyone ruling out a camera based solution has very little imagination.

Unless it’s a mathematical proof, solved usually means works in the overwhelming majority of cases. It’s solved for all intents and purposes.

Waymo has barely seen the US. They just got on the highway and don't operate anywhere with snow.

If that's your definition of solved, be my guest, but it's a pretty silly one.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#142

Post by oska »

Zigurd wrote: post #110
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally those are the things that happen once someone retires and starts contemplating where their money should go after they die.

Bill Gates is still kickin'. There are credible independent estimates that his funding has saved tens of millions of lives that would've been lost to malaria, AIDS, and other diseases. Effective altruism and other New Age garbage pseudo philosophy can't hold a candle to that.

In my opinion, one of the things that most reveals a person's biases and worldview is which tech oligarchs they revere and which they loathe

To reveal my own bias / worldview, I loathe and detest Bill Gates in nearly every way and have done so for over three decades. I think he has had a massively negative impact on humanity, mainly by making the computer industry so shitty for 4+ decades but in other more controversial areas as well.

With Elon Musk, while perceiving a number of big faults in the man, I also acknowledge that he has helped advance some very beneficial technologies (like electric vehicles and battery storage). So I have a mixed opinion on him, while with Gates, he is almost all evil and has had a massive negative impact on the planet.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#143

Post by dyauspitr »

goosejuice wrote: post #141
dyauspitr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it’s a mathematical proof, solved usually means works in the overwhelming majority of cases. It’s solved for all intents and purposes.

Waymo has barely seen the US. They just got on the highway and don't operate anywhere with snow. If that's your definition of solved, be my guest, but it's a pretty silly one.

Highway? They’re in San Francisco my guy.

Detroit, Denver, Philadelphia and DC this year.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#144

Post by goosejuice »

dyauspitr wrote: post #143
goosejuice wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo has barely seen the US. They just got on the highway and don't operate anywhere with snow. If that's your definition of solved, be my guest, but it's a pretty silly one.

Highway? They’re in San Francisco my guy. Detroit, Denver, Philadelphia and DC this year.

Yeah, it's been a month.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#145

Post by gitaarik »

rich_sasha wrote: post #52
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #4

When you have a CEO like Elon who swears up and down that you only need cameras for autonomous driving vehicles, and skimping out on crucial extras like Li-DAR, can anyone be surprised by this result? Tesla also likes to take the motto of "move fast and break things" to a fault.

Musk's success story is taking very bold bets almost flippantly. These things have a premium associates with them, because to most people they are so toxic that they would never consider them. Every time when he has the choice to do something conservative or bold, he goes for the latter, and so long as he has a bit of luck, that is very much a winning strategy. To most people, I guess the stress of always betting eve…

It rather reminds me of that Musk was obsessed with converting Paypal to run on Windows servers instead of Linux, and that he therefore finally got ousted by the other CEOs. Because he already had a big share in the company he made a lot of money. But he doesn't seem to be a clever engineer.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#146

Post by gitaarik »

guywithahat wrote: post #15
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #4

When you have a CEO like Elon who swears up and down that you only need cameras for autonomous driving vehicles, and skimping out on crucial extras like Li-DAR, can anyone be surprised by this result? Tesla also likes to take the motto of "move fast and break things" to a fault.

The more I've looked into the topic the less I think the removal of lidar was a cost issue. I think there are a lot of benefits to simplifying your sensor tech stack, and while I won't pretend to know the best solution removing things like lidar and ultrasonic sensors seem to have been a decision about improving performance. By doubling down on cameras your technical team can remain focused on certain sensor technolo…

Seems to me rather that Teslas are self driving cars with a handicap; they are missing some easily obtainable data because they lack the sensors. Because their CEO is so hard headed.

Simplifying things doesn't always make things easier.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#147

Post by rich_sasha »

oska wrote: post #140
cn-watch wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no elon musk museums. There are no elon musk hospitals. There are no elon musk centers for unwed mothers. How could the richest man in the world give so little back.

Let's just ignore Tesla's enormous positive health impact of replacing millions of polluting vehicles with zero emission ones

I'm conflicted on this one. Famously, Tesla's main revenue source for ages was selling green credits to other car makers. Presumably, if not for Tesla, these car makers would have had to do something else.

The way I see it, he converted his cars' greenness into other people's fumes. So not a net win after all.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#148

Post by natch »

dang wrote: post #76
natch wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? We're trying for something else here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yes, I will try to find better ways to engage. Thanks for your moderating hand here.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#149

Post by dang »

natch wrote: post #148
dang wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? We're trying for something else here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yes, I will try to find better ways to engage. Thanks for your moderating hand here.

Appreciated!

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#150

Post by natch »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #61
natch wrote: post #18

Most minor fender benders are not reported by the involved people, whereas even the most minor ones often caused by other humans must be assiduously reported by any company doing such a rollout. A responsible journalist with half a clue would mention that, and tell us how that distorts the numbers. If we correct for this distortion, it’s clear that the truth would come out in Tesla’s favor here. Instead the writer em…

Every 40,000 miles is every 2nd year for the average American. Every 500,000 miles is once in a lifetime for the average American. Using your own personal experience, it should be obvious that trivial fender benders are more common than once per lifetime but significantly less common than one every couple of years.

My household alone has had two fender benders in the past six weeks, one of which will not be reported (and, maybe not relevant, both the fault of other drivers). Zooming out in time they are less common but most are unreported. The big question would be whether the 40,000 number includes unreported incidents.
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