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The biggest heat pumps

bbc.com

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Re: The biggest heat pumps

#141

Post by ssl-3 »

ssl-3 wrote: post #134
Scoundreller wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can also see them being useful in parts of the American South where big garages being common and the weather gets hot: Take some of the heat from the garage and convert it into hot water for showering and cleaning. Win-win. Uhhh, better to put the unit inside the home where it provides a bit of a/c. Double win if you cool the compressor with incoming water. Not in the south myself, but with trad water heaters, I…

Sure. It's better to start with an excellent home design that most-effectively uses every iota of modern tech to optimize efficiency. And sure, even more efficiency can be eeked out if one is willing to layer on their own productive infrastructure hacks. But not everybody has those opportunities. Not every home has an existing conditioned space within which to put a water heater. Not every person is equipped (mentall…

I measured it tonight just because I was curious.

Same house, same tap, same thermometer as the previous summer reading. It went from ~room temperature to ~60F/16C in a hurry. That's about the temperature of the basement right now.

It then dropped to about 48F/9C as water from the pipe under the street was introduced, and it stayed at that temperature. That'd be great for an incidental cooling loop, except: It's rather cold outside and it will remain cold for months. :)

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#143

Post by john61 »

xg15 wrote: post #85

A bit OT, but since this article also mentions district heating: Are there any efforts to attach any of the recently built AI data centers (and their power plants) to district heating networks?

In Vienna, a hospital is heated by a neighboring data center using a heat pump, while the hospital cools the data center.

https://www.wienenergie.at/blog/fernwaerme-zukunft/#Abw%C3%A...

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#144

Post by enaaem »

moooo99 wrote: post #28
willvarfar wrote: post #14

In the nordics we love heat-pumps! Something like 70% of houses are heated by heat-pumps, and 90% of apartment buildings are heated by district heating and that is often generated by huge heatpumps. Apparently 95% of new heating installations in Swedish houses are heat-pumps these days: https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/handle/JRC1... Heatpumps have been heating nordic homes for decades. Even in the co…

As a German, I find the popularity of heat pumps in the nordics especially amusing. In Germany heat pumps were an incredibly political topic and people were pushed by some media outlets to really hate heat pumps. One recurring topic was that heat pumps can‘t work at German temperatures.

Imagine if things were the other way around. That we already had heat pumps and someone suggests we should pipe this toxic and explosive gas into our homes and burn it. That would be an insane idea.

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#145

Post by acheron »

I've lived in a couple houses built in the 80s that had heat pumps. why do people keep acting like heat pumps are a new thing? i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#146

Post by ahofmann »

fsckboy wrote: post #133
ahofmann wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving water will get much colder than 0℃ before turning solid. -10℃ or even -25℃ are easily possible. If the water is also under pressure, it can get even colder.

I thought to supercool water, it needed to be completely still? am i confusing it with superheating?

I don't know much about water. I just remembered that rivers aren't freezing at all, even in harsh winters and searched a bit on the internet.

To be honest, I'm writing this comment mainly to say: what a great user handle, I smiled :-)

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#147

Post by [deleted] »

lnsru wrote: post #38
moooo99 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German, I find the popularity of heat pumps in the nordics especially amusing. In Germany heat pumps were an incredibly political topic and people were pushed by some media outlets to really hate heat pumps. One recurring topic was that heat pumps can‘t work at German temperatures.

Nothing amusing. Germany is not really rich compared to nordics. And now let‘s do so math! Electricity: 0,3€/kWh and gas 0,1€/kWh. I need ~3x more gas to get same temperature in my room. And gas heating costs €10k while heat pump €40k without subsidies and probably raw €15k material cost if I install it by myself. So why should I pay more by €30k to install experimental thing for a decade when my low cost gas heating…

[deleted]

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#148

Post by moooo99 »

stefanfisk wrote: post #83
holowoodman wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Everything in Germany has been three-phase since forever. But especially with old houses, with any "not insignificant change" to your electrical setup, you have to bring everything up to modern standards. Also, and connected with that, metering is weird in Germany. If your consumption rises above a certain amount (I think 10MWh for a single-family home) you are required to get a "smart meter", meaning a digital m…

OK, but what about the rest of the price difference? Once the electrical is taken care of it should just be a matter of replacing the furnace and pulling some tubes and wires to the outer unit? You said 40k, but the heat pump itself isn’t even 10k.

The biggest factor is almost certainly the subsidy for switching to a heatpump.

But there are other factors as well. Air to Air heatpumps are uncommon in Germany, we usually install Air to Water ones, which are more complex. Unlike other countries, our heat pumps are usually mounted on a concrete slab and not on the wall. Then there are some norms for quality of the water, etc. they aim to increase the lifespan of the system, but increase upfront costs

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#149

Post by AndrewDucker »

jimmaswell wrote: post #92
xg15 wrote: post #85

A bit OT, but since this article also mentions district heating: Are there any efforts to attach any of the recently built AI data centers (and their power plants) to district heating networks?

If we all went full-in on nuclear we could use resistive heat and air cool datacenters all day with no concern for the cost. It's a shame.

Except that nuclear power is extremely expensive.

Re: The biggest heat pumps

#150

Post by euroderf »

wkat4242 wrote: post #29
jack_tripper wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sign of a rich and very developed country. A lot of buildings in Austrian cities are still heated by burning oil or wood and the whole city smells like a bonfire. Probably gonna have my lifespan shortened by at least a decade from all that fossil fuel pollution, but at least we banned that dirty nuclear from killing us.

Yes heat pumps are expensive and you need different radiators and more insulation than with traditional gas central heating. That's why it's an issue in Holland too. Not many people have the investment for all that. It's mainly worth it when you have solar panels but that requires another big investment. I'm lucky to live in Spain where it's not that cold so I just have one little plug in radiator I use a few months…

> more insulation

Why is this ? (Sorry if it's a stupid question.)

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