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Rats Play DOOM

ratsplaydoom.com

141–150 of 170 posts

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#141
post #118

I'm opposed to this project because it involves using animals in medical experiments, which I believe is never ethically justifiable. It goes against basic moral and ethical principles regarding animal treatment. If the project were designed to allow animals to choose whether or not to participate, it would be more acceptable. Some scientists have already explored such approaches. By not giving animals a choice, you'…

Then make your own world where you don't benefit from the knowledge gained by means you don't approve of. This world is not that world.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#142
post #118

I'm opposed to this project because it involves using animals in medical experiments, which I believe is never ethically justifiable. It goes against basic moral and ethical principles regarding animal treatment. If the project were designed to allow animals to choose whether or not to participate, it would be more acceptable. Some scientists have already explored such approaches. By not giving animals a choice, you'…

You have interesting points but I feel you are jumping to conclusions. 'Curiosity not judgment' is a great rule for me, at least, because I rarely know enough to judge. Criticizing without knowing almost certainly makes me wrong, produces nothing, and costs me the opportunity to do something useful. It also wastes time and energy for multiple people.

It also is unfair to the experimenters and alienates them, when they could become allies and improve their methods. It alienates others; it makes you seem defensive and someone who lashes out unfairly - who wants to be involved with that? Even if the researchers agreed, would they want to have this judgmental, attacking person around?

For example, someone could ask: 'Hi - This is quite innovative. How are the animals introduced to the setup, trained, and experimented with? Are they basically required to play? What if they stop? Do they want to stop at the end of the session? Do they seek it out? Are there signs of stress or enjoyment? There is a bunch of innovation in animal research on giving them choices, and as we learn more about animal emotions and intelligence it makes much more sense to consider these things. This experiment seems like a perfect setup to explore some of those things; I'd love to engage with you on it, and/or here are some links to learn about it ...'. The researchers might love to help.

Maybe you know all that. I just hate to see good causes turned into alienation.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#143

I'm a little conflicted on the ethics of this ... but this would have made a kickass youtube channel.

Why? Unless you're against keeping pets in general, what's wrong with training your pet rat to play a video game?

I haven't look deep into this, but all the first thing I could think of is Clockwork Orange.

Rat strapped into some contraption and forced to play a game.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#144
post #142
post #118

I'm opposed to this project because it involves using animals in medical experiments, which I believe is never ethically justifiable. It goes against basic moral and ethical principles regarding animal treatment. If the project were designed to allow animals to choose whether or not to participate, it would be more acceptable. Some scientists have already explored such approaches. By not giving animals a choice, you'…

You have interesting points but I feel you are jumping to conclusions. 'Curiosity not judgment' is a great rule for me, at least, because I rarely know enough to judge. Criticizing without knowing almost certainly makes me wrong, produces nothing, and costs me the opportunity to do something useful. It also wastes time and energy for multiple people. It also is unfair to the experimenters and alienates them, when the…

[dead]

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#146
post #26

This isn't true of all rats

So true! A little over fifty percent of the rat population would rather watch fox news and spend more time oiling up those weapons for when "it hits the fan".

Grandpa rats shaking their paws in anger going "It's all of 'em darned video games spoiling this generation of rats! Back in my days..."

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#147

Here is a thought: Maybe we are all just living in some gigantic experiment, that some incomprehensibly advanced civilization has created, to make us indirectly play DOOM, without us even realizing. Any progress we make is just one step further in their experiment, a reward, every issue like war, climate change, corruption, put in place by them as a challenge, while behind it all, in higher dimension, it is translate…

This is a very popular theme, unfortunately without any practical conclusion.

I believe the practical conclusion is right there and pretty simple: if so, as long as we can't break out of this open world simulation and/or decisively prove we are in one, the best we can do is aim for success in the simulation. Just like we should do in the non-simulated world.

So, practically, we should behave the same.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#148
>The impact of prolonged VR exposure on rat well-being needs further research.

Fairly benign, compared to all the other things that get done to rats in labs, I would think.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#149
post #11

>We reached the point of rat habituation but didn’t start training. Our rats (Todd, Kojima, Gabe) aged out before full testing. The setup works, but behavioral validation is pending. Ah man, what a pity. That VR rig is awesome, but it doesn't really seem to me they are planning to continue these experiments, or do they?

How could you go to this amount of work and not continue??? Probably just waiting for other people to get mad at the lack of progress so that they attempt this themselves, and then he can challenge them to a deathmatch with his highly trainer ringer rats

They also seemed to basically do it for two weeks and then stop because the rats "aged out" - despite it supposedly working well and achieving concrete results.

I know rats aren't long-lived, but I would be interested to know how they determined the rats 'aged out'.

Could also be a complete failure they spent considerable effort in with zero results, and are hand waving and constructing a way to quit while claiming success.

I could see the rats not really connecting things and just puttering around. It's a pretty involved setup and I poor uptake on the part of the rats would be a steep disappointment.

Re: Rats Play DOOM

#150
Very cool... but why not use something with higher res graphics, if you're going to go through the trouble of building the mechanical system. You could go ultra 4K and see if a rat begins to see... reality.
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