Oh no, this will lead to better models for less money!
DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
141–150 of 331 posts
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the keys being, of course, that the Chinese government doesn't care. Yeah it might require mules bringing the GPUs into China but once they're in China, no one is breaking any laws. Of course DeepSeek is using these GPUs! It's not illegal for them to do so!
The US government doesn't really care either. We have someone in the comments section talking about how they encountered a bunch of suspicious bidders on their GPU auction. That's not what happens when people care about being potentially investigated for breaking export rules.
> suspicious bidders
A person with a Chinese name living in Delaware? Gasp.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#143I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…
> Kinda surprised they didn’t run into model collapse problems, This is just model distillation. Anyone with the expertise to build a model from scratch (which DeepSeek certainly can) can do this in a careful manner. > but they stole their training data from other people who stole their training data from data collections that arguably stole them from content creators. Bingo. I have no problem with pirates pirating o…
Google and Meta are probably the only two companies that have a right to license their training data
For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that?
Did they pay teams of monkeys to generate their own, novel training data? Or gain explicit, opt-in permission from users who entrust them with their files/content?
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#144> chips that are banned in the country > The US bans the sale of these advanced semiconductors to China Whoa there, Bloomberg; just because the USA bans the sale of something to your country doesn't make it banned in your country.
> Whoa there, Bloomberg; just because the USA bans the sale of something to your country doesn't make it banned in your country.
Many Americans, including their government, seem to think that US laws apply globally.
They have extradited Ukrainian men from Poland because that Ukrainian was running a torrent website (illegal in the US, not illegal in Ukraine nor Poland).
They tried getting an Australian extradited from Sweden and the UK for supposedly hosting a website that contained information the US government considered illegally obtained.
More egregiously, they have kidnapped tens to hundreds of people from various countries, sometimes on reasons as flimsy as watch model or name, to torture (sometimes to death), because a lawyer working for the president decided that's actually legal because they're waves hands "enemy combattants".
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#145 Nvidia sells to Bob
Bob sells to China
Bob is a citizen of Ω
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#146What's strange in this discussion of chips and export bans is there's been zero discussion of cloud access, I guess networked computers are difficult for America's gerontocrats to understand. I've rented H100s no problem on American servers and there's no KYC or anything, they let anybody do it.
If the CIA shows up, Amazon is 100% going to let them rootkit those boxes. They might even have a way to do it without rebooting your servers.
To obtain what? Deepseek's newest open source model before they release it?
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Kinda surprised they didn’t run into model collapse problems, This is just model distillation. Anyone with the expertise to build a model from scratch (which DeepSeek certainly can) can do this in a careful manner. > but they stole their training data from other people who stole their training data from data collections that arguably stole them from content creators. Bingo. I have no problem with pirates pirating o…
Google and Meta are probably the only two companies that have a right to license their training data For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? Did they pay teams of monkeys to generate their own, novel training data? Or gain explicit, opt-in permission from users who entrust them with their files/content?
> For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that?
I edited my comment, but basically they both own massive social media properties (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook) or file upload sites (Google Drive, Google Photos, Gmail) and their ToSes grant them these rights. You accept these terms when you use their services.
That's not great, but we are getting free services. It's in the terms.
It's a whole lot better than just scraping without permission, compensation, acknowledgement, or even notice.
To be clear, I have no problem with these models being built. But if they "steal" the data, the resultant model shouldn't be owned by anyone. It should be public domain and not allowed to be kept as a trade secret.
And it's funny that Anthropic is trying to depress our wages by training on our code. Again - I'm fine with that - I want to work faster, and I like these models and their capabilities. But Anthropic shouldn't be able to own the models they train off of us exclusively since they didn't license or buy our data. They provided us with nothing at all.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
China banned them tho.
China banned them AFTER the US first banned them and then unbanned them and a series of unfriendly trade moves by the US. This discussion where China is always purely dishonest, bad etc. without any context is honestly lame. The Chinese ban is largely a political move designed to signal that they're not going to be pushed around. They pretty much know companies are using them, (and H100 in Thailand etc.) but as long…
> It's certainly better than the EU just rolling over for King Donald, which as a EU citizen is embarrassing.
I'm seeing it more as buying time thing. In sourcing as much as possible in the EU is already in progress, as well as various trade agreements with different countries and economic blocs. That doesn't mean it isn't preferable to play nice with the demented guy to make the transition less painful in the short term.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#149The main reason "Nvidia chips control" doesn’t work is because laws will not prevent criminals from obtaining Nvidia chips nor breaking laws.
Young travelers have always found ways to subsidize their trips by selling some of their personal possessions while there. I heard Levi’s were so popular during the Cold War that customs started counting your clothes going in and out of Russia, which still wouldn’t stop someone swapping a worn out pair for new ones.
And American cigarettes were popular in Canada in the 90’s and 00’s. IIRC the Turkish tobacco blended in was banned by the Canadian state dept so theirs were garbage. Meanwhile Americans were flying into Canada in order to fly to Cuba.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Kinda surprised they didn’t run into model collapse problems, This is just model distillation. Anyone with the expertise to build a model from scratch (which DeepSeek certainly can) can do this in a careful manner. > but they stole their training data from other people who stole their training data from data collections that arguably stole them from content creators. Bingo. I have no problem with pirates pirating o…
Google and Meta are probably the only two companies that have a right to license their training data For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? Did they pay teams of monkeys to generate their own, novel training data? Or gain explicit, opt-in permission from users who entrust them with their files/content?
The explicit opt in is only necessary under gdpr, which is a lot of data, but not a majority.