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A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

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Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#141

Post by sgerenser »

wang_li wrote: post #75
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US has a massively progressive tax system. On a net tax basis about 50% of the country pays nothing. Sure, they pay sales tax and employment taxes, but they also receive some mix of earned income tax credits, child tax credits, snap, medicaid, housing, etc. There is no real way for the US to have a single payer tax system without more people actually becoming net tax payers.

Yeah this is something people in favor of single payer healthcare in the U.S. don’t want to acknowledge. In most other countries, the middle 50% of taxpayers pay a much higher percentage of their income than in the U.S. Everyone somehow thinks we can make it work just by raising taxes on “the rich” (where that is usually defined as anyone making more money than them). But if it was that easy, then why does Canada and most European countries have so much higher taxes on the middle class?

Now I’m not inherently against increasing taxes (for all) if it gave us a much better healthcare system, but you have to be intellectually honest about who would have to pay those higher taxes. It’s not just Elon Musk.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#142

Post by dns_snek »

wang_li wrote: post #75
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US has a massively progressive tax system. On a net tax basis about 50% of the country pays nothing. Sure, they pay sales tax and employment taxes, but they also receive some mix of earned income tax credits, child tax credits, snap, medicaid, housing, etc. There is no real way for the US to have a single payer tax system without more people actually becoming net tax payers.

You can't just ignore the money people are spending on healthcare right now. Every expenditure on private healthcare (insurance, copays, etc.) would be collected as tax going forward. That would be roughly $10-$20k annually?

Many more people would become net tax payers overnight without actually spending more money.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#143

Post by actionfromafar »

Muromec wrote: post #109
actionfromafar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to pay thousands in tariffs and/or private companies, thank you very much. I'm not a communist.

Sir, your visa application is denied anyways.

Yes Sir Mr President Sir.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#144

Post by sea_boat »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #108
khannn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on a blood thinner and the medication was very pricey. Didn't have insurance and the "savings card" covered fuck all unless you had insurance. There are three blood thinners on the US market and they all cost a lot.

> There are three blood thinners on the US market and they all cost a lot. What about Warfarin? Its $21 for 30 pills, according to https://www.goodrx.com/warfarin

[dead]

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#145

Post by rootusrootus »

petercooper wrote: post #115

However, it’s not all roses. Try getting melatonin in the UK. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US. Same for any first generation antihistamines. Or a jar of painkillers - packets are limited to 16 here. Or lidocaine cream. Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet.

> Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet

Ha, that's funny, I do something kind of like that when I go to the UK. Though it's just one medicine -- Kwells. Easily available OTC there, not available at all here in the US except as a prescription-only transdermal patch.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#146

Post by cyanydeez »

Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

Not true. No one pays up front, our previous pay for those prices.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#147

Post by sgerenser »

ksenzee wrote: post #64
zuppy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about the poor people? the ones that can't really afford insurance. i've heard multiple times that epipen prices are crazy expensive and that's a really basic drug.

If you’re really poor, you can get Medicaid. It’s the working poor who earn too much for Medicaid who are really shafted. The ACA tried to fix that for as many as it could, by expanding Medicaid to households making more money; the Republicans shut down the government to fight that expansion. It’s maddening.

Gov shutdown wasn’t about medicaid expansion, which is done at the state level. It was about expanding ACA subsidies to those making more than 400% of the federal poverty level.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#148

Post by jfghi »

Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

I know people who have paid list prices for drugs because their insurance wouldn’t cover them.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#149

Post by rootusrootus »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #9

in some part of europe, we have national healthcare so basically people don't think they are paying their medications, like there was some magic money. in that case, you don't care if you drug cost 10€ or 2000€ because you aren't spending a single € from your own wallet, at least if you don't factor in taxes. Contrary to the USA where it's a much more responsible market, people do pay for the medications or they get…

It does not work that way, though, because as a practical matter, the majority of routine medications in the US are generics now and quite cheap, maybe $25 out of pocket (and frequently zero) with even basic insurance. The crazy prices happen for the edge cases. Things that happen often enough that you may know someone affected by it, but are still a minority of most people's experience.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#150

Post by daveguy »

cogman10 wrote: post #137
trashface wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. This isn't really true on obamacare/ACA plans, even the high-end ones like gold PPOs. The formularies are much w…

Anyone know what's going on with the ACA marketplace? I like to take a peek at it every so often and it's just stupendously worse than employer healthcare. There is no plan in my market (Idaho) which doesn't have extreme out of network deductibles. The cost is also identical to what I and my employer pay for insurance. Is it just that the ACA is mostly used by sick people or something?

It's because health insurance companies need to pad their profits. Because we have a backward system in the US where profits are extracted by everyone without any competition from a not-for-profit. That's why the idea of a public option is so popular (it was originally a Republican idea until it was decided insurance company profits are more desirable). Personally, I don't think any health insurance company should be for-profit. But the for-profit companies sure as hell should have a non-profit competition with the same bargaining power they do.
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