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A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

bbc.com

141–150 of 223 posts

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#141
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastics under load have a lower Tg.

Tg changes? Or do you mean they deflect sooner under more load?

Maybe "load" includes the heat that comes from the changes forces from the vibrations? But even then, that would be additional heat sources, rather than a change in the temperature where it happens.

Polycarbonate shows little change vs pressure [1]:

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6403934/

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figured it was experimental; no A&P who cared about his future would install a 3D printed part on a certified aircraft.

Loads of commercial aircraft and jet engine parts are manufactured using additive manufacturing, or ”3D printing”

Yes… but more often something like laser-sintered metal printing, which is not going to melt when hot.

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#143
post #89
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is this like vibe-coding -- or do you just mean both are bad? According to the report: > The aircraft owner who installed the modified fuel system stated that the 3D-printed induction elbow was purchased in the USA at an airshow, and he understood from the vendor that it was printed from CF-ABS (carbon fibre – acrylonitrile butadiene styrene) filament material, with a glass transition temperature3 of 105°…

In the report they tested samples of the part and found that they actually had glass transition temperatures of 52.8°C, and 54.0°C... so sounds like the owner fell victim to false advertising.

And in fact the owner was not the person who installed the part!

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#144

It's important to note the plane is a Cozy Mk IV, which is an experimental light aircraft that is built at home out of foam and fiberglass by following instructions you get online. The design is very good, and hundreds have been flown over the last ~35 years, but Cozy pilots are the aviation equivalent of people who run Arch Linux as their daily driver; many of them are tweaking their aircraft with some frequency. Th…

Figured it was experimental; no A&P who cared about his future would install a 3D printed part on a certified aircraft.

Actually, I think all of the jet engine manufacturers these days are using 3d printers for some of their parts? Although you usually find the press releases talking about this using the term "additive manufacturing" instead. See, e.g., this press release from 2018 about a notable jet engine manufacturer using 3d printing: https://www.geaerospace.com/news/articles/manufacturing/manu...

(Although note that these are not using plastic parts, to be clear.)

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#145
post #83

I hope 3-D printing becomes obsolete when robots can achieve the same efficiency with using the standard construction materials. That should take away all benefits of 3-D printing over regular builds.

You're against additive manufacturing because you want robots to become craftsmen? That's... a pretty wild take, to put it mildly.

I'm curious, what are "standard construction materials" and "regular builds" to you? And what do you think those robots are made of?

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#146
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, injection molds are expensive. And the type of people who can afford them tend to cover their ass better - or do slightly less insanely dumb things. 3D printing (especially using filament) allows idiots to enter entirely new areas of endeavor.

> 3D printing (especially using filament) allows idiots to enter entirely new areas of endeavor. That's true for any tool.

And when someone makes a new affordable tool that opens up making new types of things…. What happens?

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figured it was experimental; no A&P who cared about his future would install a 3D printed part on a certified aircraft.

Actually, I think all of the jet engine manufacturers these days are using 3d printers for some of their parts? Although you usually find the press releases talking about this using the term "additive manufacturing" instead. See, e.g., this press release from 2018 about a notable jet engine manufacturer using 3d printing: https://www.geaerospace.com/news/articles/manufacturing/manu... (Although note that these are no…

Manufacturers who use 3D printing use specialized 3D printers, not the same thing that hobbyists use.

They also handle all of the testing of parts to ensure they meet the design spec and they have the equipment to validate each printed part to ensure it doesn't have any major defects.

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#148

Taken at face value, this is engineering negligence. I've done industrial design with plastics and 3D printed parts. Regardless of the forming techniques, with plastics you still need to consider properties like minimum melting temperatures, tensile stress, and so forth. Then you must test that rigorously. This is all standard procedure. That information is in the data sheet for the material. I did a quick search and…

Also, strictly as a combo 3D-printing and engine enthusiast: Never with a GUN to my head would I install 3D printed parts in a CAR engine, let alone in an aircraft engine. This is spectacularly poor judgement on the part of the owner.

> Never with a GUN to my head would I install 3D printed parts in a CAR engine, let alone in an aircraft engine.

The fabrication technology doesn't matter. The qualification process, on the other hand ...

This is the primary reason why I never got a pilot's license. I suspect I would spend far too much time making sure the maintenance was up to standard and far too little actually enjoying flying.

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spec is fiberglass, which has better thermal resistance.

But not that much better compared the better filaments out there. Fair chance it was printed out of PLA, ABS or PETG, by the shade of the part it looks like it was CF loaded filament. A better choice would have been PEEK. But even then, I would have done a lot of on-the-ground testing before trusting my life to a part from the printer.

There’s a massive difference between the thermal properties of the materials you listed.

Re: A Cozy Mk IV light aircraft crashed after 3D-printed part was weakened by heat

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figured it was experimental; no A&P who cared about his future would install a 3D printed part on a certified aircraft.

Actually, I think all of the jet engine manufacturers these days are using 3d printers for some of their parts? Although you usually find the press releases talking about this using the term "additive manufacturing" instead. See, e.g., this press release from 2018 about a notable jet engine manufacturer using 3d printing: https://www.geaerospace.com/news/articles/manufacturing/manu... (Although note that these are no…

Yes, implicit was that it was an uncertified part 3D-printed by "someone" who sold it at an airshow. Obviously a certified part from the manufacturer is a different story.

The 3D printing isn't the actual problem, as you note.

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