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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

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Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#141

Post by rasz »

pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

Fiat FIRE engines are reliable workhorses, but they arent cool nor overbuild like K series. You can tune NA K20 to over 250 whp, or 400 whp turbo with _stock_ bottom end. Same reason 2JZ are legendary with stock bottom end good for at least 600 whp.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#142

Post by rasz »

Lio wrote: post #4

When I was a kid I wanted a classic Mini with a transplanted Honda K-Series engine. It's a big engine for that little car but I'd completely forgotten about them over the years. It's wild that people are still doing this: https://potentialmotorsport.com/ I might have to reserect that dream. :D

Mighty Car Mods build one, was tight fit but looked like tons of fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN7tl7nhV0s&list=PLp0KnUFYB-...

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#143

Post by bluGill »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #117
bluGill wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what you are asking of the engine. An engine at red line but under no load doesn't generate that much heat, and so can get by with no coolant, and run for a long time on just the oil film left after draining the oil. This is really bad for the engine and it will wear out much faster - but it will run for a surprisingly long time.

These are random little examples that might work in theory. Sure, a car can idle for an hour without coolant probably in the winter, possibly. I can't be driven on the street in any meaningful way anywhere but a Minnesota winter. If you can't drive to work 20 miles away in 75 degree weather without coolant, than no a car can't run without coolant. And no it can't run without oil in any meaningful way on the street fo…

The demos I've seen of running without oil or coolant were not your definiton, but the useless one of engine not doing anything other than running. don't run an engine without fluids - it will work in some cases but they are not normal and won't last long.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#144

Post by bluGill »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #116
jabl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's of course possible to design engines to be oil cooled, though water-glycol tends to be preferred due to about twice the specific heat capacity, meaning smaller coolant channels, radiators, and fans are required.

Is it specific heat that we care about, or rate of heat transfer? Specific heat matters a bit, but if you make your coolant take twice the energy to change 1 degree, the same thing happens on the radiator side and you must release twice the heat to cool 1 degree. Rate of heat transfer in general if probably more important.

In the case of the oil pull tractor they needed to run the tractor much hotter than water boils - even if they had known modern antifreeze it still boils too hot. They also didn't know to make modern radiators - they usee very large radiators to make up for lack of surface area. (They also used exhaust to pull air through the radiator instead of a fan). All in all a very ingenious design - but there is good reason they don't make them like that anymore. (My 1939 is a lot more modern - and it lacks electric start)

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#145

Post by exidy »

pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

Ford Kent engine[0] was first produced in 1959 and is still being produced and used in motorsport, so technically it qualifies for a pension now.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Kent_engine

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#146

Post by tw8345 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #133
leeoniya wrote: post #37

reminds me of the LADA vs BMW meme https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fn...

The annoying thing is the third BMW from the left was the perfect one, with the fourth left a close second.

Yeah going downhill fast they didnt include some of the newer crap

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#147

Post by sidewndr46 »

Animats wrote: post #112

This little 20HP one-cylinder Diesel engine [1] powers much of third world agriculture. The original design seems to have come from Shanghai Engine Company in 1953, and is still manufactured by multiple companies. It's water-cooled, but non-recirculating; you have to fill the water tank when you fill the fuel tank. No electrical components at all. Starts with a hand crank. Over 75 years of production of that design.…

That's rather peculiar. Was this a project of the CCP or was it derived from some other design?

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#148

Post by amypetrik8 »

qingcharles wrote: post #129
skywal_l wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I counter you with a Cleon engine[0] with 42 years. ;) But in the end an engine can be reliable but still be an environmental liability. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Cl%C3%A9on-Fonte_engin...

I had a lot of Minis, so I'll counter with the BMC A-Series: 1951-2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_A-series_engine

i counter you all with the 70 year legend

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_air-cooled_engine

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#150

Post by Animats »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #147
Animats wrote: post #112

This little 20HP one-cylinder Diesel engine [1] powers much of third world agriculture. The original design seems to have come from Shanghai Engine Company in 1953, and is still manufactured by multiple companies. It's water-cooled, but non-recirculating; you have to fill the water tank when you fill the fuel tank. No electrical components at all. Starts with a hand crank. Over 75 years of production of that design.…

That's rather peculiar. Was this a project of the CCP or was it derived from some other design?

It came out at a time when Shanghai Diesel Engine Company was totally government owned.

Shanghai Diesel Engine Co., Ltd. (SDEC) originated from the Shanghai Diesel Engine Factory, founded in 1947 under the name Wusong Manufacturing Plant of the China Agricultural Machinery Company, where it produced a trial batch of 5 HP gasoline engines. After the founding of the People’s Republic of China, the factory was renamed Wusong Machinery Plant, which later began mass-producing a single-cylinder, horizontal 12 HP diesel engine operating at 750 rpm. In August 1953, it officially became Shanghai Diesel Engine Factory and started independently designing and manufacturing diesel engines.[1]

That's the engine - that little 12HP single-cylinder horizontal Diesel engine. It's up to 20HP now; there's been progress in 70 years. Here's a full teardown and overhaul.[2]

It doesn't seem to resemble any common US, UK, Japanese, or German diesel engine of the 1940s. All those countries built small Diesels in that period, but none are close to the Chinese design. Don't know who the designer was, though. If you asked SDEC, they'd probably tell you.

[1] https://www.chinadieselgen.com/en/history-of-shanghai-diesel...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voev_QmZnYs

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