Seems to me this is a kind of advanced persistent threat.
You defeat them one day, but they're still there, and they keep trying, day after day after day.
EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
141–150 of 449 posts
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is of course a process, that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span. People don't manage to remember things that happened in politics 4 years ago in their own country. Now they are required to follow up on dozens of shitty proposals, all probably illegal in their own country, and those don't even happen in their own country? That divides the number of pe…
what do you mean, a slow bureaucracy is a democratic bureaucracy. the last thing you want is a highly efficient bureaucracy enacting change quickly. This message brought to you by the Bureau of Sabotage
There is nothing democratic about the process. It's all unelected politicians ruling for you
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#143Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.
Because it doesn't, people are just embarrassingly ignorant of how the EU legislative process works so when a vote to give first approval to a text is cancelled before it takes place journalists and reddit all over pull out the mission accomplished banners and when a negotiating position is approved everyone has a surprised pikachu face The "proposal" was made something like 3 years ago, the killing never happened an…
The issue is not with the lack of understanding of "process". But sheer frustration because there's nothing you can do as just a citizen. An unelected council of !notAyatollah has decided, and this thing is being pushed at glacier slow pace.
If EU is a trade union this is a severe overreach, if EU wants to be a federation, there's not enough checks and balances. This is the crux of the problem.
The issue is that this is a legislation that only ones in power want(censorship on communications channel where they themselves are exempt from it), that has been pushed over and over again under different names(it goes so far back - it started with ACTA talks and extreme surveillance proposals to fight copyright violations) and details in implementation and/or excuse(this time we get classic "think of the children")
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because it doesn't, people are just embarrassingly ignorant of how the EU legislative process works Hmm, now whose fault is it that the EU institutions are so complicated and opaque? The citizens? The journalists? Or maybe...?
They're not complicated for anyone with above room temperature IQ. And they're almost identical to how it works in the member countries anyway And in a democracy if you don't know how your own laws are made the fault is always yours as a voter
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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is nonsense, stop spreading FUD.
What is untrue? You need to verify your identity with Persona to use GPT-5 or GPT 5.1 or a lot of other models. "By filling the checkbox below, you consent to Persona, OpenAI’s vendor, collecting, using, and utilizing its service providers to process your biometric information to verify your identity, identify fraud, and conduct quality assurance for Persona’s platform in accordance with its Privacy Policy and OpenAI…
Are you perhaps a UK citizen? I, a German, can use GPT-5.1 without providing biometric information.
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The plans for scanning your chats were on display for fifty Earth years at the local planning department in Alpha Centauri"? Nobody's attention span is infinite. I don't doubt I could understand all details of the EU legislative process and keep track of what sort of terrible proposals are underway if I put in the time, but I have a day job, hobbies that are frankly more interesting, and enough national legislation…
> I don't understand why I am obliged to surrender either a large and ever-growing slice of my attention or my one-over-400something-million share of sovereignty. Because your puny state is no match for the US, China or soon enough, India. Heck, even Russia in its current incarnation outmatches 80% of the EU countries. That's it, it's that simple, conceptually. It's basically the Articles of Confederation vs the Cons…
Why, then, is the supposed anti-US/China/India/Russia power bloc trying to pass laws to mandate absolute surveillance of all private communications? If the EU is going to continue attempting to legislate away people's freedoms for purposes that are completely out of scope for the reason it exists, then the natural result is that people will turn on the EU. There is little purpose in staving off the surrendering of independence to US/China if the process entails surrendering even more freedom than they would demand to the EU, all the more so when the EU already rolls over to the US/China on almost everything anyways. I am supportive of a pan-European unification in theory, but if the result looks anything like this, no wonder people are disillusioned with the European project. With friends like the EU, who needs enemies?
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is of course a process, that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span. People don't manage to remember things that happened in politics 4 years ago in their own country. Now they are required to follow up on dozens of shitty proposals, all probably illegal in their own country, and those don't even happen in their own country? That divides the number of pe…
>> that does not lend itself to be democratic, because it is way longer than most people's attention span The attention span of the general public _shouldn't_ matter. That's why we elect politicians.
Is the process democratic if citizen's opinions are irrelevant?
No matter who's in charge, no matter the election results, no matter the protests - the same style of legislation is pushed.
and once something's in it is almost impossible to remove.
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#148[dead]
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#149Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.
TFA mentions "european governments" but this legislation is proposed by a bunch of european members of parliament who in no way represent any governments and much less the commission or the union. In short it tries to depict a group of old farts as an overreaching snooping authority.
I wonder who could have a vested interest in depicting the EU as a repressive regime...
Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance
#150Seems to me this is a kind of advanced persistent threat. You defeat them one day, but they're still there, and they keep trying, day after day after day.
The purpose of the state is continuity of the state. The state is always the natural enemy of the people - specifically the liberty and privacy of the people.
Any time you have a government, you will have a government that wishes to spy on you to make sure you will never attempt a competing government/army.