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Maybe you’re not trying

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Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#141

Post by markus_zhang »

yousif_123123 wrote: post #58

I've always noticed that when I'm giving advice to someone or trying to help out, it always feels their problem is easier than whatever problem I have. As someone with some anxiety around things like calling some company to get something done or asking a random stranger for some help in a store, I would gladly do it if it was to help someone else (family member or friend). But when it's for me I find it harder. I won…

Yeah, definitely, to the point that I think we should get together to fix each other’s problems as long as the problems fit.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#142

Post by Rotundo »

mwcz wrote: post #120
sandyarmstrong wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A line I always remember (from Babylon 5) is: "When I clean my place, all I've done is clean my place. But when I help you clean your place, I'm _helping you_." tl;dr you should ask your badass partner for strategic help when the entire galaxy is under threat, even if she seems busy.

Nice, what was the context of that line in B5? I don't remember it.

S03E20 "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place"

Reverend Will Dexter: "You know before I got married Emily he used to come by sometime to help me clean out my apartment well I asked her how come here so he could help clean up my place when your place is just as bad she said because cleaning up your place helps me to forget what a mess I made a mind and when I sweep my floor all I've done is sweep my floor but when I help you clean up your place I am helping you."

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#143

Post by Dilettante_ »

yetihehe wrote: post #139
Dilettante_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to accurately give expression to "the absence of this particular illusion". In the asteroid metaphor: It means that if you can very clearly see the asteroid coming towards you, instead of going "no, the asteroid is going to do the right thing", you make preparations knowing that there is no do-er inside the asteroid. And after getting hit by it, you do not go "if only the asteroid had had more willpower it…

> And after getting hit by it, you do not go "if only the asteroid had had more willpower it would not have hit us. I don't understand this. You tell me that not having agency is not applicable to asteroids? > (But reality is only ever one way, disregarding quantum mechanical magic for a minute) I think we can't really disregard quantum mechanics when talking about very complicated systems operating on the edge of be…

  You tell me that not having agency is not applicable to asteroids?
The opposite: Having agency is not applicable to non-asteroids, any more than to asteroids. The asteroid was a metaphor for humans. I recognize I am not at my best at explaining right now.

  I think we can't really disregard quantum mechanics
Then we can allow that there is a magical being outside our observable reality that is influencing the result of random-seeming quantum processes, itself unbound by deterministic physics. You may call this being "your self" and this being would indeed have agency that transcends "chain-of-dominoes" causality. I cannot disprove such a theory. But is that an interesting conversation to have?

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#144

Post by cindyllm »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #49
8bitbeep wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, not everything is a competition that needs to be won.

I am not competitive. That's a deliberate stance, and one that I've held for decades. It does contribute to the fact that I haven't achieved greatness, but I have no regrets, and haven't done badly, despite that. It's not weakness, as some folks have found out, over the years. When I "win," then someone else "loses." I have a problem with that.

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Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#145

Post by Aurornis »

abhaynayar wrote: post #134

I have some qualm with "agency is important" type thinking because when I was in a good situation in life with "moderate" difficulty which I overcame I called it me being agentic. However, when I was in situations in life which were bad and totally out of my control and to the best of my ability I couldn't come out of them, I realized it's pretty much all just luck and circumstance. Just because you're not emotionall…

> However, when I was in situations in life which were bad and totally out of my control and to the best of my ability I couldn't come out of them, I realized it's pretty much all just luck and circumstance.

The failure mode is when someone starts seeing almost everything as totally out of their control, even when it’s not.

When I was doing volunteer mentoring it was a common scenario for people to request help for their hopeless situation at work, then to resolve it through the simplest suggestions like “Have you tried talking to them?” Gentle questions like “What did they say when you asked them about it?” would reveal that most of the hopeless situations were only assumed to be hopeless or out of their control.

That’s not to say that every situation is in your control. However I’ve talked to enough people who erroneously underestimate their agency or control over situations to always question it on a situation by situation basis.

Some times it takes external encouragement to realize that a situation is not actually out of control or hopeless.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#146

Post by cindyllm »

Aurornis wrote: post #145
abhaynayar wrote: post #134

I have some qualm with "agency is important" type thinking because when I was in a good situation in life with "moderate" difficulty which I overcame I called it me being agentic. However, when I was in situations in life which were bad and totally out of my control and to the best of my ability I couldn't come out of them, I realized it's pretty much all just luck and circumstance. Just because you're not emotionall…

> However, when I was in situations in life which were bad and totally out of my control and to the best of my ability I couldn't come out of them, I realized it's pretty much all just luck and circumstance. The failure mode is when someone starts seeing almost everything as totally out of their control, even when it’s not. When I was doing volunteer mentoring it was a common scenario for people to request help for t…

[dead]

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#147

Post by Aurornis »

xivzgrev wrote: post #78

she's a little hard on herself. She claimed the ideas her husband came up with were not particularly inventive and the same she'd come up with had she been helping a friend Yet, when she told her friends, they did NOT suggest such actions. They too felt like there was nothing that could be done. Rather I'd posit that the actions the husband did seemed obvious to the author in hindsight, and that not everyone would ea…

The author has somewhat of a history in the professional poker world of being a less than reliable narrator. I’d take the details of the story with a grain of salt and focus on the ideas instead.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#148

Post by mwcz »

Rotundo wrote: post #142
mwcz wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice, what was the context of that line in B5? I don't remember it.

S03E20 "And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place" Reverend Will Dexter: "You know before I got married Emily he used to come by sometime to help me clean out my apartment well I asked her how come here so he could help clean up my place when your place is just as bad she said because cleaning up your place helps me to forget what a mess I made a mind and when I sweep my floor all I've done is sweep my floor but when I…

Thank you, great episode!

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#150

Post by coolThingsFirst »

This essay has loads of subtance to it and it illumines my primary issue with stoicism things that we don't have control over are basically not that obvious.

On another note, this is a bit hard to believe:

"extorted money from my brother by spoofing my phone number and pretending to have kidnapped me."

Having studied jung some time and having extensive meditative practice from this essay I'd conclude with 95% certainty that she permitted this to happen for personal reasons. Stalking is horrible but you know what's worse than being stalked? Loneliness. Individuated attention is incredibly rare to come by in today's world so when someone receives it, the feeling of being special is hard to push away.

Big kudos btw to both her and her husband. I read their writing from time to time and I've never read anything from either that wasn't brutally honest and packed with deep insights.

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