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Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

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Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#141

Post by MengerSponge »

Teever wrote: post #120
MengerSponge wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erin Brockovich and Lois Gibbs generated outrage, which was well deserved and a societal good. They were working against unregulated/underregulated firms, which did not have effective oversight. Oversight for PG&E should have come from the US EPA. I suppose the EPA should have handled Love Canal too, but the agency didn't exist when Hooker dumped their pollutants. Your cultural references suggest you're American, so…

This kind of dismissive attitude and condescending tone is a big part of why people don't trust people who say "trust us, you don't need to know what we're doing to those animals in the secret basement at the university." For the record I am not American and I have sat in on a few institutional review board meetings that pertained to animal welfare relating to a project that I was involved with.

Animal research is regulated, but not by a public jury. "We don't advertise what we do with animals in the basement" is because extremists have attempted to murder animal researchers in recent memory[1]. In the US we have a review process similar to an IRB for animal research: IACUC.

I'm dismissive of and admittedly rather condescending to people who equate their ignorance to experts' knowledge. But that's the whole point: expertise isn't a hereditary title. It comes from study, and I support anyone's effort to gain it!

For what it's worth: if you've sat on an IRB you're not Joe Public. You may not be a scientist, but you're an expert in another field. You also know that, so I don't get what you're arguing.

[1]: https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/eco-violence-rec...

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#142

Post by _aavaa_ »

Ancapistani wrote: post #140
_aavaa_ wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how the burden of proof works. If you are putting forth the lab leak origin, it is you who must provide reasonable evidence in support of it.

I did not put it forth. The other user asserted that it was “conspiracy”. That’s the assertion that I’m challenging, not the veracity of the theory itself.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is a conspiracy theory at this point because it is believes, in spite of the existing evidence, the covid absolutely came leaked from a lab rather than starting being of zoonotic orign. It also asserts a coverup by both the Chinese and American government, as well as cover ups and complicity from the entire Chinese and American virology community.

This, despite the possibility seriously investigated by (at least the Americans) and finding very little evidence to support it, and far less than the zoonotic origin.

That's why it's a conspiracy theory, because it alleges a conspiracy.

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#143

Post by Ancapistani »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #142
Ancapistani wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not put it forth. The other user asserted that it was “conspiracy”. That’s the assertion that I’m challenging, not the veracity of the theory itself.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is a conspiracy theory at this point because it is believes, in spite of the existing evidence, the covid absolutely came leaked from a lab rather than starting being of zoonotic orign. It also asserts a coverup by both the Chinese and American government, as well as cover ups and complicity from the entire Chinese and American virology community. This, despite the possibi…

You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth here.

The specific origins of the virus have not, to my knowledge, been confirmed.

I am not asserting that it was a lab leak; I’m merely asserting that it is not unreasonable to consider it possible.

Nowhere did I suggest that I believed it more likely to be the source than zoonotic spillover, nor did I assert anything about a coverup by any party.

Frankly, this whole discussion is a great example of why I commented. It should absolutely not be discouraged to consider less-likely explanations when the most likely has not been conclusively proven.

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#144

Post by Forgeties79 »

mr_toad wrote: post #97
7bit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. And also because of Chernobyl and Fukushima. But you don't care do you

We’re going to look back and realise that the destruction wrought by global warming was far worse in every way than at Chernobyl.

I don’t know if you quite realize how close to a major climate change event Chernobyl almost became.

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#145

Post by Forgeties79 »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #122
cogman10 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, Maybe china? China is eating everyone's lunch when it comes to producing green tech (particularly solar and batteries).

China is eating everyone’s lunch on new(ish) sources of energy because it seems to have basically run out of old(er) ones. The insane amount of coal burning aside, there are e.g. basically as many hydroelectric plants in China as its enormous rivers can support, accompanied by the huge amounts of ecological and societal destruction that those always cause, and that’s still not enough . The buildup of both solar and n…

I don’t really care what the motivation is. If it means we get green energy over more coal-fired plants/fossil fuel sources than whatever. Call it Super Awesome MEGA PATRIOT Fuel for all I care. Right now we have an administration touting the virtues of “beautiful clean coal” on its official government website - https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/rein...

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#146

Post by tsunamifury »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #121
tsunamifury wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dyed in the wool leftist I more and more struggle with Obama legacy from common core to regulation to his utter selling out the American people to the cia. When he was well intentioned he seemed to be a total failure and when he was blatantly self interested he was monstrous. I don’t think the right is another option but woof… this is tough

It was obvious when he was president that he's a terrible person. Not sure how you're struggling with it now. He's just a guy like anyone else. Not special. We shouldn't deify presidents. I didn't vote for him in 2008 because I thought he was too inexperienced. I didn't vote for him in 2012 because he continued the war of terror.

I didn’t say any of this. I think you are responding to Your own thoughts and not mine.

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#147

Post by hammock »

Ancapistani wrote: post #143
_aavaa_ wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. It is a conspiracy theory at this point because it is believes, in spite of the existing evidence, the covid absolutely came leaked from a lab rather than starting being of zoonotic orign. It also asserts a coverup by both the Chinese and American government, as well as cover ups and complicity from the entire Chinese and American virology community. This, despite the possibi…

You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth here. The specific origins of the virus have not, to my knowledge, been confirmed. I am not asserting that it was a lab leak; I’m merely asserting that it is not unreasonable to consider it possible. Nowhere did I suggest that I believed it more likely to be the source than zoonotic spillover, nor did I assert anything about a coverup by any party. Frankly, this whole discuss…

[flagged]

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#148

Post by amy_petrik »

kordlessagain wrote: post #126
orioni wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just like how universities hide their animal research facilities. It wasn't until the final year of my biology degree that I found out we had a basement floor under our life sciences building where this research is carried out. I visited a few times as part of a research project I was involved in, and that experience was one of the factors that put me off pursuing a career in biomedical research.

To be fair an operational animal lab is an order of different ethical problem than safely storying radioactive material.

And the two combined present an enormous ethical challenge but also enormous potential - radioactive spiders imbuing superpowers upon humans they might bite, magical ooze creating anthropomorphic turtles, and so on

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#149

Post by switknee »

api wrote: post #55
amelius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, however I suppose it is fuel for conspiracy theories.

Conspiracists and media brainwashed people will react this way no matter what. Doesn’t matter whether it’s secretive or not. It’s not about you or the subject matter but their need to feel important or in possession of some truth THEY don’t want you to know.

Isn't a conspiracist someone who colludes with others to commit a crime, often in secret?

Re: Kodak ran a nuclear device in its basement for decades

#150

Post by lofaszvanitt »

billy99k wrote: post #20
jandrewrogers wrote: post #17

When I studied chemistry at university, only a handful of select students were introduced to the nuclear science lab in the basement. It had a lot of spicy isotopes, neutron sources, etc. Even as a chemistry student with free run of the place for years I had no idea it was in the building until the department head pulled a few of us aside. The reason for the informal secrecy, as it was explained to me, is that every…

These public freak outs is also why we don't have abundant nuclear energy. The climate activists of the 60s-90s stopped us from building more reactors, one of the cleanest sources of energy ever known.

Exactly like Asimov wrote about it in the Foundation. Different way, same purpose.
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