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FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

fex-emu.com

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Re: FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

#141

Post by overfeed »

wtallis wrote: post #140
overfeed wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any clear instances of Qualcomm contributing something that's specific to Snapdragon X Elite parts and does not work for Snapdragon X Plus bins of the same silicon? You're getting caught up by inconsistencies in an argument you brought up. Which suggests the argument itself is flawed. My unchanged position is Snapdragon X Elite laptops have better Linux support than the Plus variants. You thought I was…

> Qualcomm only ever pledged to support Elite processors Link, please. > and perhaps not coincidentally all of the Plus laptops require reversing You're still acting as though Qualcomm has made meaningful contributions to Linux support for Snapdragon X Elite in a way that has not also helped Snapdragon X Plus support. But you haven't specifically pointed to any Qualcomm contributions of any nature, let alone ones tha…

> Link, please.

Try the first Qualcomm link I sent upthread. I have trouble accepting you're arguing in good faith because you could have checked this for yourself. All the articles I can find pivlished by, or quoting Qualcomm concerning Snapdragon X and Linux consistently refer to the Elite version: I challenge you to find a single counterexample that mentions Plus.

You call my evidence weak, and yet you have provided no evidence to support your evolving argument thus far, so I hereby invoke Hitchen's razor, and will not engage with you beyond this comment. I refuse to spend any more of my time and energy trawling a 1200+ page Discord thread, Gthub, or the kernel mailing list searching for empirical evidence to counter your 10-second thought experiments, when you can't be bothered to open links I've already shared unprompted.

I bid you good day.

Re: FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

#142

Post by dangus »

wtallis wrote: post #139
dangus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The motivation is that die space on the chip is precious.

If carrying around a little bit of x86 compatibility baggage had enough die size cost to matter for Apple, then Intel and AMD would be pushing much harder to reduce their comparative mountain of x86 compatibility baggage. In reality, the costs of design changes and validation and updating software to not rely on a newly-deprecated hardware feature can easily outweigh the potential per-chip cost savings of eliminating…

I don’t think that’s a very good comparison.

Intel and AMD have to maintain compatibility in a much different way. They don’t control what is done on the OS, they don’t control what is done with the physical product sold in stores. They have gigantic customers like Dell and HP and Microsoft that make specific technical demands out of their architecture.

Apple controls the whole stack. They decide exactly what features are in software and are in hardware. There are zero Apple machines in data centers running BigCorp’s legacy CashCow software. There are zero laptop or desktop OEMs that use Apple’s chips besides Apple. Apple won’t piss off their core consumer or creative professional customers by changing some technical behind-the-scenes feature.

I think Apple would gladly cut a very small and specific architecture feature from their chips if they feel it’s obsolete, better accomplished in software or not at all.

And this isn’t just for cost savings, it could be for performance and/or battery life optimization, or to make room for something else in the package.

Re: FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

#143

Post by bonzini »

astrange wrote: post #131
bonzini wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SETP is used rarely to compute parity, though it doesn't really save anything if you can use POPCNT. PF is also used by floating point comparisons with a different meaning though that is not useful for the Arm extension from Apple. AF indeed is basically unused. The problem for both is that you need them for accurate emulation "just in case".

You can eliminate flag generation almost all the time with a little optimization (slash deoptimizing if you hit an unexpected use) but it certainly is less convenient to have to implement an optimizer.

The unexpectedly hard bit is switch statements, which are the main case in which compiled code has two back to back jumps... therefore the input flags come from a different basic block and you don't know which instruction generated it.

Re: FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

#144

Post by cultofmetatron »

scotty79 wrote: post #56
MobiusHorizons wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rosetta performance is best in class to my knowledge, although they had the benefit of being able to add custom instructions and modes to the cpu to make some parts easier. Meaning Rosetta would not have helped valve unless they built the frame on apple silicon. As for not improving, it is likely that Apple no longer feels the need to invest in Rosetta improvements now that Apple silicon is so dominant and software s…

Rosetta is abandonware: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/abou... Why would a company on its way to the moon, entrust such an important project as translation layer between two major architectures to a single rinky-dinky corp that got rich selling common electronics marketed as luxury fluff, that's on the decline and has head so far stuck up its butt that it thinks it can do whatever it wants, i…

> got rich selling common electronics marketed as luxury fluff

Apple products have pretty good build quality and perf per watt that more than justifies the premium. AS far as I can tell, the only payer in the market thats even trying to compete with apple on quality in the laptop space is framework. But Framework can't make their own chips.

Re: FEX-emu – Run x86 applications on ARM64 Linux devices

#145

Post by Lightkey »

cubefox wrote: post #53
sitkack wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just used by, Valve is sponsoring FEX. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903610#:~:text=Valve%...

I wouldn't call this random comment reliable testimony that they are sponsoring FEX.

They took their sweet time but both the project lead Ryan Houdek as well as Valve developer Pierre-Loup Griffais (username Plagman here in the comments) have now come out saying that FEX-Emu was not just sponsored by Valve but is actually their project and that they approached suitable developers with the idea who they have been paying for the development: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2025/12/valve-have-been-fundin...
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