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.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

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141–150 of 605 posts

Re: .NET 10

#141

Post by duxup »

jcmontx wrote: post #136

I've worked with .NET for over 10 years and we built our startup on top of it. Here are my thoughts: Pros: * Stability * Very decent standard library * Good balance between productivity and robustness * Great package management * Extremely easy to upgrade, so essentially free goodies (performance) every year or so Cons: * Very MSFT dominated (obviously) * Subpar tooling outside of Windows (I'm looking at you C# Dev K…

Anecdotal opinion , but as someone who works in Node and JS land a lot of the time. I think .NET is pretty cool.

Re: .NET 10

#142

Post by locknitpicker »

Razengan wrote: post #109
sfn42 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they can onboard people who know anything-not-C# and benefit from the .Net library I don't get this mindset. I'd much rather have the new guy spend a few months getting used to a new language, than have an organization where everyone uses different languages. It's a nightmare a few years down the road when you have 20 different projects in 15 different languages and the people who built them are mostly gone. People…

Do you also make everyone wear the same clothes, drive the same vehicle, order the same food

> Do you also make everyone wear the same clothes, drive the same vehicle, order the same food

I don't think this is an valid comparison. There's a problem called technology sprawl, which is characterized by needlessly increasing maintenance needs and cognitive load and lower development speeds caused by the need to juggle multiple programming languages or frameworks. There is a fixed cost in maintaining each tech stack and even development environment, and you multiply that cost each time you think it's a good idea to introduce yet another programming language or framework.

Re: .NET 10

#143

Post by CharlieDigital »

masfoobar wrote: post #139
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I think the "confusing" aspect with C#, being part of the Microsoft eco-system, is that there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools. To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid. (Yes - there is Visual Studio Code) Again, I a…

    > It's just the amount of money spent on Windows/Microsoft for small companies is rather large, compared to other alternatives that are just as good.
This is a complete mis-perception about the modern ecosystem.

We have a full team using C# at a series-C, YC startup with every developer on Macs (some on Beelinks and Linux). The team is using a mix of VS Code, Cursor, and Rider. We deploy to Linux container instances in GKE on Google Cloud running Postgres.

There is no more tie in to Microsoft licensing than there is say for TypeScript. Yes, C# DevKit is licensed like VS, but if you don't need the features, then you can also use DotRush or just use the free C# Extension.

Re: .NET 10

#144

Post by ourmandave »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #131
sfn42 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't like .NET, that's fine. I'm not saying everyone needs to use .NET. I'm saying pick one thing and stick with it. That said I think you're exaggerating those complaints, the docs for C# are quite good imo and I've been working with ASP.NET web apps for half a decade so far and I'm not seeing any problems like you're describing. Maybe you're miffed about the Framework to Core/.NET switch? That was a bit of…

> the thing you wrote last year doesn't look anything structurally like what you're doing now... all the 6-month-old on-line docs and tutorials aren't only useless, but time wasting. This is indeed a complete exaggeration.

Sorry, I love .NET and have used it from it's rollout back in 2002.

I'm just fondly remembering the ASP.NET MVC churn or more recently, Azure API whiplash.

Re: .NET 10

#145

Post by lou1306 »

masfoobar wrote: post #139
jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I think the "confusing" aspect with C#, being part of the Microsoft eco-system, is that there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools. To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid. (Yes - there is Visual Studio Code) Again, I a…

> Need a database - should it be SQL Server?

"I am using Java. Need a database - should it be Oracle?"

.NET Core 1.0 was released almost a _decade_ ago.

Re: .NET 10

#146

Post by christophilus »

jitbit wrote: post #2

For us, every .NET upgrade since .NET 5 has gone surprisingly smoothly and reduced CPU/RAM usage by 10–15%. We were even able to downgrade our cloud servers to smaller instances, literally. I wish .NET was more popular among startups, if only C# could get rid of the "enterpisey" stigma.

I really liked working with C#. I spent 15 years or so with it and found it very productive. But no; I don’t miss the culture of C# / Microsoft shops at all.

Re: .NET 10

#147

Post by locknitpicker »

Razengan wrote: post #126
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you also make everyone drive the same vehicle Good analogy. If, say, your organisation maintains a fleet of cars - it needs to keep them on the road, get them serviced, replace parts, refresh individual cars regularly etc. How many different makes and models do you support? A small org might decide that it only makes sense to support one. A larger org might have the resources for 3 or 4, so that there is 1 or 2…

But different tasks require cars, other tasks require trucks, vans, bicycles, motorcycles..

> But different tasks require cars, other tasks require trucks, vans, bicycles, motorcycles..

No, they don't. You may believe that some frameworks or programming language are ideally suited for some particular tasks, but that is mainly dictated by your prior experience (or lack thereof). The truth of the matter is that a van can very well do the tasks you conceive for a car, trucks, bicycles, motorcycles, etc. If you go with a van, you avoid the problems of having to maintain car, trucks, bicycles, motorcycles, etc. This is called software engineering.

Re: .NET 10

#148

Post by BatteryMountain »

kurokawad wrote: post #34

To me, it's pretty much unbelievable that Microsoft introduces an agent framework while for JSON serializing third-party Newtonsoft is still the go-to. Edit. I was not aware that the gap between System.Text.Json and Newtonsoft narrowed, take my comment with a grain of salt, please!

Haven't touched the newtonsoft package since .net core 3 / or about 5 years go? Something like that. Its not really getting updates and its huge/slow compare to built in one. The built in one is much better these days and plays well with other subsystems in aspnet.

Re: .NET 10

#149

Post by debugnik »

pizza-wizard wrote: post #100
azertify wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it feel like the functional stuff is coming into C# so that F# can disappear? Pure speculation on my part but doesn't seem unreasonable.

Microsoft is still supporting VB.NET, Windows Forms/WPF, and to a lesser extent VBA. I doubt F# is going away anytime soon.

Supporting as in maintenance mode, at least VB.NET. Thankfully F# is more community driven, but the CLR ecosystem is definitely getting C#-centric in the use of idioms and features from newer C# versions, which increasingly affects F# interop while they catch up.

Re: .NET 10

#150

Post by martinald »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #143
masfoobar wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "confusing" aspect with C#, being part of the Microsoft eco-system, is that there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools. To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid. (Yes - there is Visual Studio Code) Again, I a…

> It's just the amount of money spent on Windows/Microsoft for small companies is rather large, compared to other alternatives that are just as good. This is a complete mis-perception about the modern ecosystem. We have a full team using C# at a series-C, YC startup with every developer on Macs (some on Beelinks and Linux). The team is using a mix of VS Code, Cursor, and Rider. We deploy to Linux container instances…

Totally agree.

Ironically dotnet runs better on Linux/Mac systems in my experience. All our devs who use Windows for dotnet dev now use WSL2 as it matches production. We don't use any other 'commercial' Microsoft products like SQL Server or Azure. All postgres/redis/etc and deploy onto docker containers.

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