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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

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Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#141

Post by freeone3000 »

cipehr wrote: post #52
Eisenstein wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to revise our understanding of expectation of privacy. The 'you have no expectation of privacy when you are outside' bit was formed before we had everything recording us and before face recognition could track us. At the very least I think any kind of face recognition should require probable cause.

Its an interesting question indeed. You're saying there might be some expectation of privacy even in public? The line here is a little different. I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera. The question here is if a public/government agenc…

> I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera.

Maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to do that. Permanent persistent recording of the public feels very different than taking a photo every once in a while, and I feel it’s an infringement of privacy even when a single person does it.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#142

Post by mothballed »

dfxm12 wrote: post #110
ls612 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the sorts of ICE actions that are causing this controversy only have political support because the US immigration laws have been flouted for 30+ years. Regardless of what you or I think of it it’s the reality that lots of the electorate wants deportations and lots of them and that likely isn’t true in a world where the laws on the books were more strictly enforced in the past.

What political support? Is there evidence to back that claim? The most recent polls I've seen about this are Gallup's polls from July and they suggest that 62% of Americans disapprove of how Trump is handling immigration. This includes a majority of Dems and Independents. The trend is more and more people disapprove of Trump on this topic as time moves forward.

I don't have any data to back this up, but it is conceivable the people that want to deport en masse often understand that the perception of such policy is ugly, and simultaneously support it while not wanting to publicly broadcast it.

If I supported mass deportations, I would simply vote for it and never tell anyone so that I could get what I want without getting any of the flack from the associates of the people who are deported. There's not a lot to gain from telling others you want to harm a bunch of your neighbors, but there is a lot to gain if you can give them the boot and not being perceived as having anything to do with their misfortune.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#143

Post by potato3732842 »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #82
pton_xd wrote: post #12

What did they think would happen? Installing surveillance systems to monitor people is acceptable, as long as they're only used against the majority? I don't understand the logic here.

You don't understand why they may want surveillance to curb or investigate violent crime, but not why they oppose surveillance used by the Gestapo to kidnap members of their community? Seriously? It's like saying I'm hypocritical for loving to write with pencils but being offended when someone else stabs me with one. > Bro, you said you liked pencils, make up your mind!

No. I'm calling them idiots for giving a bunch of 3rd graders piles of newspapers and matches and expecting the eventual end result to be anything other than a fire.

This shit was wholly foreseeable but they flew right into the sun, not too close to it, right the fuck into it, because they just couldn't stop lusting after the idea of sending the jackboot after someone for a crime that amounts to petty deviance (I'd like to say they were using it to go after petty thieves, but we all know they weren't doing that).

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#144

Post by rexpop »

ethanhunt_ wrote: post #49
notepad0x90 wrote: post #36

[flagged]

[flagged]

Hi, Jew here: I was with you until you started slandering dissenters as "rootless cosmopolitans"—a slur has cost my family dearly—from jobs and enrollments to several dozen of our very lives.

Yes, NO land is an "economic zone" while it is also a home. I feel this especially acutely having grown up in the San Francisco Bay Area where My friends and I struggle to compete for housing with the best and the brightest from the entire world over who, themselves, treat my home region less like a community and more like an understaffed amusement park.

Nevertheless, your blood quanta framing is utterly horrifying to me, someone whose family were murdered, lands stolen, and who has no country to go back to.

We are not by choice "rootless cosmopolitans", but by the very bigotry you espouse.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#145

Post by antonvs »

cipehr wrote: post #52
Eisenstein wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to revise our understanding of expectation of privacy. The 'you have no expectation of privacy when you are outside' bit was formed before we had everything recording us and before face recognition could track us. At the very least I think any kind of face recognition should require probable cause.

Its an interesting question indeed. You're saying there might be some expectation of privacy even in public? The line here is a little different. I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera. The question here is if a public/government agenc…

> You're saying there might be some expectation of privacy even in public?

Sure. The expectation is that your every move in public is not being recorded and stored on a central system that the government, and by extension various kinds of bad actors, can access.

In a society where the government's role is to defend its citizenry rather than participate in their exploitation, this would be an easy choice.

US governments (both federal and local) face some challenges here, because "defend its citizenry" is not really one of its main goals.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#146

Post by potato3732842 »

miohtama wrote: post #134
potato3732842 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had never picked up a history book so they didn't realize that the systems they envisioned being used to stop the jackboot upon people they don't like would eventually be used to stomp people they do.

If you don't want to read a book, here is a Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi Back in a day, you did not have cameras yet, so one had to hire snitches. Luckily this is not the case anymore, as demonstrated by Chinese leading by an example: https://t.co/Q1xOiQMmZT

Facts are no match for my ability to use short sighted emotion and motivated reasoning to convince myself it'll be different this time. /s

Kinda funny if you think about it, the snitches are cut from the same cloth as the people clamoring for more cameras, more jackboot. If anything they should be pissed about being cut out.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#147

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

SilverElfin wrote: post #118
cipehr wrote: post #24

A little annoyed, this seems like is has nothing to do with the ICE arrests ... > The city suspended its Flock system because city officials could not guarantee they wouldn’t be forced to release data collected by those devices someday, she said. Key part is " someday ". Seems like the article is implying that flock may have shared this data with ICE which led to the arrests... but there is no proof supporting this..…

From what I read, the pressure from activist groups on Redmond’s city leadership began before the Skagit County ruling. So it is probably unrelated. But I think it’s still a bad outcome for Redmond. Why wouldn’t you want law enforcement to be able to observe public spaces (which these cameras are monitoring) and identify or track suspects? We want our city services (like policing) to be efficient, right? We want crim…

You sound like great fun at a party.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#148

Post by duped »

stocksinsmocks wrote: post #67
cipehr wrote: post #24

A little annoyed, this seems like is has nothing to do with the ICE arrests ... > The city suspended its Flock system because city officials could not guarantee they wouldn’t be forced to release data collected by those devices someday, she said. Key part is " someday ". Seems like the article is implying that flock may have shared this data with ICE which led to the arrests... but there is no proof supporting this..…

[flagged]

Paramilitaries kidnapping and assaulting my neighbors is not "rage bait." It's fascism.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#149

Post by potato3732842 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #141
cipehr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an interesting question indeed. You're saying there might be some expectation of privacy even in public? The line here is a little different. I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera. The question here is if a public/government agenc…

> I could point a camera out my window and record every license plate that drives by my house, and that would be allowed because its recording public activities, and the data I collect would be private—its mine from my camera. Maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to do that. Permanent persistent recording of the public feels very different than taking a photo every once in a while, and I feel it’s an infringement of privac…

Feels way different when it's one rando doing it than when it's a government or BigCo with government integration doing it.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#150

Post by ranger_danger »

soupfordummies wrote: post #105
seltzered_ wrote: post #50

"On Thursday, a Skagit County Superior Court judge ruled that pictures taken by Flock cameras in the cities of Sedro-Woolley and Stanwood qualify as public records, and therefore must be released as required by the state’s Public Records Act, court records show." This video by Tom Lehto talks more about that court case that illustrates citizens can legally do FOIA requests for traffic cameras (e.g. Flock): https://yo…

Someone should use AI to request such a large amount of data that it DDoSes the whole system. Unfortunately I feel like that would result in traffic camera data just being removed from FOIA rather than removed from use.

I don't think that would be legal... you'd have to get a judge to reverse the previous decision that established the cameras are public record. They would probably just turn them off instead.
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