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When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

electrek.co

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Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#141

Post by buran77 »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #136
surgical_fire wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FSD never drives alone. So much for "Full Self" whatever.

I'll grant that the marketing oversells the capabilities of the system, but (as I have commented repeatedly in these FSD threads): anyone using it knows within a couple days their comfort level. I'm utterly unconvinced that any user is actually confused about the capacity of the system just because it's named "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" is not telling the truth. The fact of the technology is that while imperfe…

> I can only attribute the angry skepticism in the comments to willful ignorance or lack of in-the-seat experience

Next to "the latest version really fixed it, for realsies this time", the "anyone who doesn't like it is ignorant or has irrational hate for Tesla" must be the second most sung hymn among a small but entirely too vocal group of Tesla owners. Nothing brings down a conversation as quickly as someone like you, trying to justify your purchase by insulting everyone who doesn't agree with your sunk-cost-fallacy-driven opinions.

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#142

Post by don_neufeld »

nofriend wrote: post #123
don_neufeld wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The execution on the roadster baffles me. IIRC the deposit was 250K, and I know people who signed up on the first day. Can you imagine a more dedicated fan? How do you not deliver to that group ? How big an own-goal is that?

50k. point definitely remains

I believe the Founders series was 250K deposit.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/202x-roadster-delay-...

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#143

Post by pmarreck »

simondotau wrote: post #78
pmarreck wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In your quest to be critical of anything Tesla does That conclusion does not logically follow, whatsoever, from the evidence presented

I didn't assert any conclusions.

you assumed he was on a "quest to be critical of anything Tesla does"; the person made only 1 criticism, which was valid, no less (having used FSD and experienced issues myself; I refuse to be gaslit)

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#144

Post by dzhiurgis »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #125
dzhiurgis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said nothing about analog.

> I said nothing about analog. But: > basically minimally tech and maximally maintainable and maximum longevity. Kind of implies it. Tech is used to lower prices, not raise them, if you want minimize tech, and you want to make it as maintainable by end user or relatively cheap mechanics, and you want it to last as long as possible, that is going to cost a lot. Or you basically want a Lada Laika, the old ones, that co…

> Anything with microchips is going to suffer if those chips die, and they aren't going to be easy to repair.

AFAIK Tesla is already moving towards that direction with unboxed manufacturing - it's where same chip can be either window controller or brake controller. Having single chip + open source firmware would eliminate this issue.

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#145

Post by atlex2 »

irjustin wrote: post #124
atlex2 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're building on a false premise that human equivalent performance using cameras is acceptable. That's the whole point of AI - when you can think really fast, the world is really slow. You simulate things. Even with lifetimes of data, the cars still will fail in visual scenarios where error bars on ground truth shoot through the roof. Elon seems to believe his cars will fail in similar ways to humans because they…

So, I agree with what you're saying, but that doesn't matter. The legal standing doesn't care what tech it is behind it. 1000 monkeys for all it matters. The point is level 3 is the most dangerous level because neither the public nor the manuf properly operates in this space.

Yeah - Tesla is in a weird level 2-4 space. They've managed to shunt liability onto their customers until now..

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#146

Post by tim333 »

don_neufeld wrote: post #67
bastawhiz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own six EVs (three cars, one of which is a Tesla, and three motorcycles). My first EV was my Tesla. We're on the cusp of trading the Tesla in for a Rivian most likely. I should be Tesla's target customer, but instead I'm exactly who you described: - I don't like the brand. I don't like Elon. I don't like the reputation that the car attaches to me. - I don't trust the technology. I've gotten two FSD trials, both sca…

The execution on the roadster baffles me. IIRC the deposit was 250K, and I know people who signed up on the first day. Can you imagine a more dedicated fan? How do you not deliver to that group ? How big an own-goal is that?

The other thing is various other companies built pretty much what Tesla was promising like the Rimac Nevera and the Yangwany U9, showing it was quite doable if Tesla had put some enthusiastic engineers on it and said go do it?

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#147

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

tippytippytango wrote: post #57

Ultimately, anecdotes and testimonials of a product like this are irrelevant. But the public discourse hasn't caught up with it. People talk about it like it's a new game console or app, giving their positive or negative testimonials, as if this is the correct way to validate the product. Only rigorous, continual, third party validation that the system is effective and safe would be relevant. It should be evaluated m…

As a robotaxi, yes. That's why Teslas rollout is relatively small/slow, has safety monitors, etc...

FSD, what most people use, is ADAS, even if it performs a lot of the driving tasks in many situations, and the driver needs to always be monitoring it, no exceptions.

The same applies to any ADAS. If it doesn't work for in a situation, the driver has to take over.

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#148

Post by vessenes »

piva00 wrote: post #130
vessenes wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. I do a lot of beta testing, and enjoy it. I think it's fun to watch the evolution of this tech over the last seven or eight years. But you don't have to feel that way.

Has everyone else you encounter on the road agreed to participate in your beta testing? That's the crux of it, and where traffic education mostly fails in the USA: the lack of consideration that the road is about safety for all users involved, the notion you are operating dangerous machinery around other people.

The Tesla on fsd13 is considerably more courteous and safer than at least the bottom quintile of drivers. It’s much safer than my teenage drivers were in my family. Failure modes in city driving tend to be stopping, not plowing through pedestrians

Re: When Tesla's FSD works well, it gets credit. When it doesn't, you get blamed

#149

Post by FeloniousHam »

buran77 wrote: post #141
FeloniousHam wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll grant that the marketing oversells the capabilities of the system, but (as I have commented repeatedly in these FSD threads): anyone using it knows within a couple days their comfort level. I'm utterly unconvinced that any user is actually confused about the capacity of the system just because it's named "Autopilot" or "Full Self Driving" is not telling the truth. The fact of the technology is that while imperfe…

> I can only attribute the angry skepticism in the comments to willful ignorance or lack of in-the-seat experience Next to "the latest version really fixed it, for realsies this time", the "anyone who doesn't like it is ignorant or has irrational hate for Tesla" must be the second most sung hymn among a small but entirely too vocal group of Tesla owners. Nothing brings down a conversation as quickly as someone like y…

> Nothing brings down a conversation as quickly as someone like you, trying to justify your purchase by insulting everyone who doesn't agree with your sunk-cost-fallacy-driven opinions.

I don't have any sunk cost in FSD. The car, sure, but it's a fine electric car that I got when there weren't many options (especially at a reasonable price).

I felt I was being generous. My inclination is that animosity to Musk's odious politics clouds the rational judgement of many critics (and they've mostly have no first-hand experience with FSD for any length of time).

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