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Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

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Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the common problem with almost anything in physics or chemistry. The Good Stuff has some horrible flaw that makes it incredibly dangerous. When we invented refrigerators first, they used ammonia as a refrigerant which was awesome at moving heat around. It's still used industrially but people die from ammonia leaks. Then they swapped it for freon, which was just about as good at moving heat around, but rotted hol…

> They're in production today, and will probably be forever. I suspect their days are numbered, because they have become _far_ more expensive to dispose of, and that's only going one direction. > But for high power density, low cost, and and high current applications where you don't have to worry about carrying them or tipping them over, you're going to be stuck with lead in a bucket of acid for a while I suspect. Yo…

>> But for high power density

> You'd think, but they _haven't_ seen a lot of use in, say, grid-scale applications

Their power density is integer multiples worse than Li-Ion no matter what you look at. Not to mention numerous other problems. So it's not surprising at all.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only energy cost that matters is to the operator. Old hardware costs more to run so why would I run it? That there was energy used to produce the device and the replacement is literally not a factor in the calculation.

[flagged]

Hah, smooth brain! (A little harsh, tho.)

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#143
post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

Not sure how reassuring it is to you, but these computers often have a longer life on the used market, even resold multiple times. The laptops in my Hungarian household always come used, simply because they are selling here capable machines in beautiful condition, below 50% of the original market price. And when we need something new, they get resold as well.

Now of course, there are the videos from third world countries where they burn e-waste for gold, so it's not all dandy, but hey. At least we can be a little more conscious.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#144
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations, welcome to the dev team of Collapse OS. https://collapseos.org/ Now they are more focused on supply chain break down but your scenario would also be valid.

The future is Forth? We're... Forthed!

My dad used to write Forth ... for fun.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solid-state batteries will never be suitable for all applications, even if they should suffice for the most frequent of them. Batteries with liquid electrolyte will always be able to provide greater power (i.e. greater current) within certain physical constraints. This should not matter for smartphones or laptops, but it should matter for many things with motors.

Whats going on with liquid electrolytes that ensure they "always be able to provide greater power"?

Much greater effective surface area.

In a battery with a liquid electrolyte, the interfacial layer between the electrode and the electrolyte is fractal in shape, created by a carefully engineered chemical reaction between the electolyte and the electrode to maximize the surface area. You can't really do that with any solid battery chemistry we are currently studying.

I think the issue is overblown. Most users who need high power also benefit from high energy, and you can always run more batteries in parallel.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#146
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations, welcome to the dev team of Collapse OS. https://collapseos.org/ Now they are more focused on supply chain break down but your scenario would also be valid.

When I think of what's out there I think of cheapy ARMs, maybe STM32 knock offs. Honestly the F103C8T6 is so prolific that's probably a solid chunk of all processors in existence. And then things like ESP32s. So to not see ARM or Tenscillica on there is a bit weird. But maybe I'm reading too much into it and it's more of a thought experiment

Looking at that list, collapse OS seems to cater to 8-bit only. It’s also aimes at “ built from scavenged parts” boards. I’ve often come across Hitachi h8, Blackfin, PIC, avr, the occasional ARM and other controllers in the wild. But they all have one thing in common: the flash is locked and inaccessible without some jtag tools. The only times you’ll see external flash (winbond & co) is with an fpga or a controller who’s had his otp memory configured with a bootloader.

I often re-purpose scavenged board because of their useful layout, but only after swapping the controller for a programmable one. The notion of scavenging the controllers themselves… far less practical as you think.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#147
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I didn’t double check indeed. I posted the wrong TED talk from him, see [1] at 4:21. There he says we need to limit climate change by limiting population growth. I think this is quite a hypocritical stance from someone who flies private jet all year. [1]: https://youtu.be/JaF-fq2Zn7I

New strawman! Now it's no longer "Gates changed his mind on it being an existential crisis" but "Gates wants population control" The source again doesn't check out. He says: - the formula at ~4:21: more people use more energy (I think that stands to reason) - you hear laughter as he then says "one of these factors [in the formula] will have to get pretty near to zero". It seems exceedingly obvious to me that the next…

Excellent reply. Having children is great, but no one can deny that when we had ours, times were different in almost every way. Our grandchildren have much more to think about and different ways to think about it. Governments, on the other hand, look at families with an agenda in mind. (As in future tax payers, soldiers and consumers. Personal freedoms be damned, like the over turning of RvW.) Population growth in my lifetime has not been good in almost every way. The lack of all birth control (if some governments have their way) will threaten all future generations.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#148
post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

If a laptop costs 1000 dollars to buy, it couldn't have used more than 1000 dollars worth of hydrocarbons to create, unless firms are operating at a loss, right? Yes, the laptop required mining lithium, mining steel, turning hydrocarbons into plastics, growing silicon crystals, photolithography for the chips, running the conveyor belts for the assembly lines, etc and all those things required electricity and the electricity was mostly provided by fossil fuels, but the total amount of fossil fuels used (when considering price) couldn't have exceeded the cost of the laptop, because that would mean that some firms are spending more on fuel than they're receiving in profit, and such firms in the general case don't survive long. So if you take the cost of the laptop and then convert that to the mix of hydrocarbons used for energy at the time of the product's manufacture, that gives you an absolute upper bound of how much embodied carbon that thing must represent. It also gives you a lower bound of how efficient something has to be before you've paid for the old thing being thrown out and the new thing being manufactured.

So consider this: you have a desktop from 2010, it cost 1000 dollars, and operated at 150 watts. You consider getting a laptop today for 500 dollars, and it would have twice the nominal performance and operates at 50 watts. The total amount of embodied carbon for both of those devices has to be less than $1,500 worth of carbon dioxide produced by hydrocarbons. It can't be higher than that. Then you consider the running cost of 150 watts per hour vs 50 watts per hour. Well, back in 2010, 1000 (2010) dollars could buy you about 6000 to 9000 kilowatt hours worth of electricity when adjusting for conversion rates and electricity cost in China. Today, 500 dollars can buy about 3500 to 6500 kilowatt hours depending on whether you're buying in the US or China. So in order for the embodied carbon to be paid off for the laptop vs the desktop, let's take 7500 kilowatts for the desktop (a fair midpoint) plus 5000 kilowatts for the laptop, and then divide that by the running difference in power of the two systems: 100 watts. So if you plan on operating the laptop continuously for 13 years, the carbon savings from the efficiency gain of the new device would offset any possible carbon generated from the old device. But the laptop is twice as powerful, and what I gave was an absolute upper bound, and cannot be taken as a good ballpark estimate for how much carbon was actually produced. In the example that I gave, there was a 15-year age difference between the old system and the new system. Depending on how the devices were used, it's reasonable to assume that the right time to have replaced the desktop was back in 2023. Depending on how you use your device, it may never end up paying itself off before using less carbon than the older device. Waste is possible. But if the new device is on longer than 125,000 hours, it will have. It's just a sanity check, but it's good to have an upper bound.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#149
post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

I think this is only going to get worse worse, as phones, tablets and PCs are broadly a solved problem these days (outside intensive tasks). Literally nothing wrong with the 15 year old imac I have except for apple no longer supporting the OS.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#150
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future is Forth? We're... Forthed!

My dad used to write Forth ... for fun.

I find it ironic that post-apocalypse we must rely on a language that is post-apocalypse.

Like monkeys gathering at the monolith…

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