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SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

sailfishos.org

141–150 of 173 posts

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#141

there's an easy roadmap to make this popular. make it so that I can dock it and use it as a full fat OS on a desktop. If they wanna market this as an open phone, they need to make it first class as a primary computing device. so far only samsung is willing to enter this territory with a glorified chromebook. if I could install the rust toolchain and vscode on it and use it in a customizable desktop environemnt by plu…

That would be nice, plug in usb-c to a display and keyboard. But there's another way, can't someone implement their own implementation of the core google services apis and then you can just load a regular app off the app store and run it? Google would absolutely want to block this as their control and monopoly depends on it. But it shouldn't be against the law. It's obvious, so it means someone must have tried and it…

It's obvious, someone has tried it, it works and is commonly used on those more FLOSS-conscious and de-googled "ROMs" - it's called microG. It's not Play Services that are the limit, it's device attestation.

Same with the device proposed by the parent - I can plug my Librem 5 in to a display and keyboard and it runs a regular GNU/Linux distro while working well as a phone, without Halium or any other Android bits.

We had these things for many years now, just look around harder :)

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#142
post #134
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you basically describing a chicken and egg problem?

I think it's more of an EU problem. We have so many public apps that rely on two big American tech companies solely because the EU has yet to figure out an alternative app store with enough security to make those apps available. This likely made sense 10 years ago, but today with all the talk about digital sovereignty it's frankly a little weak. It's not the OS that is the issue though, I could use graphene or simila…

There are exit strategies, but the EU is spineless to execute them. Just like with defence.

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#143
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I type these words on my year old Sailfish device. I had 2 other ones for roughly 10 years altogether. The UI is astonishingly polished. It has not changed a lot for 10 years, but still nice to use. There is e.g. the tutorial video that comes installed on every device. Sorry, probably won't have time to share it later, I have a funeral to organize when I get out of bed. Maybe some other user can if it's not on Youtub…

> The browser is based on Firefox with a 2 digit version number. The OS runs (probably some subset of) Android applications, no? Is Mozilla's build of Firefox not supported?

Yes, there is Android app support. Firefox should work without major problems (I use it rarely.) But it's kind of backwards, first offering a Gnu/Linux phone, but then a fundmental application like web browser should be run under Android.

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#144
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned yet the (seemingly) functional Linux mobile OS/device: the FLX1s from furilabs (https://furilabs.com/).

User reviews seem very compelling, does anybody here have experience with it (especially if you can compare with unofficial Android ROMs, Sailfish OS, or Postmarket OS)?

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#146
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you'll need to talk to your monopolistic carriers then. US mobile innovation is dead for the foreseeable future due to them, all new innovation is happening in China and other SE Asian markets. You just need to be a good consumer and buy that iPhone that Verizon orders you to have with their blessing.

Carriers in the US restricted the phones people used in the 00s and early 10s, back when there were short model whitelists, CDMA networks, and radios with only a few bands… but not so much today. Global market GSM phones activate pretty much on any US carrier just fine today. 2/3g deprecation and VoLTE is precisely because US carriers are pushing forward with new tech.

As of 2025 both AT&T and Verizon (plus, as a downstream their MVNOs) have a whitelist of allowed phone models and block connection of other phones even if they're compatible with the network.

See https://www.att.com/scmsassets/support/wireless/devices-work...

To be whitelisted, the phones need to go through onerous testing process that goes way beyond just checking for network compatibility.

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#147
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you'll need to talk to your monopolistic carriers then. US mobile innovation is dead for the foreseeable future due to them, all new innovation is happening in China and other SE Asian markets. You just need to be a good consumer and buy that iPhone that Verizon orders you to have with their blessing.

What you are describing is much more accurate of the US cell carriers before the iPhone. I remember paying $20/mo (to the carrier) for a terrible mail application on a feature phone. The iPhone's AT&T deal saved us from that situation. What are some of the innovations you're referring to?

This came back with first Trump era so your knowledge is out of date.

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#148

What distinguishes, say, a mobile OS from a more traditional desktop OS? What would not be acceptable in a tuned/configured Linux / Windows OS on a smaller-form-factor touch- and voice-enabled device? I'm excepting the obvious issue raised elsewhere of closed app stores and the tendency for ever more interactions (commercial, government, educational, institutional) to rely on these. That discussion has been had many…

The main distinguishing feature is that you generally lack a keyboar / mouse /pointer thing. Hence, the window manager and interaction in general are tuned for touch interactions, single handed use and the like. It's for this reason I like SFOS. I've tried android and ios. But they suck. As a developer, I also appreciate the flexibility even within the limits. Gradle and co. suck.

Thanks, that was on my list. And itself could fairly easily be addressed through a window manager or contained environment which served touch-only apps.

Other factors so far as I can read them:

- Insanely good power management, particularly relative to features. A dumb/feature phone can of course see much better battery life, but offering a small fraction of the services of a smartphone. (Whether or not this is a reasonable trade-off is another question.) Much of this is through chip hardware optimisation (meaning that emulated Android environments would perform poorly), and aggressive culling of background processes (which means that a full-featured desktop OS would perform much more poorly on its own as well).

- Various HW phone features, particularly display quality and cameras. To a lesser extent, audio output.

- Extreme wireless data dependency, whether cellular networking (4/5G) or WiFi.

- Cloud-based storage of virtually all data, largely implemented/enforced at the app level. Corrolary is that it's quite difficult/challenging to share data or files between applications, not to mention that it's often a bad idea to do so.

- Identity attestation, including at the network (SIM) and hardware level. I'd think that an NFC chip, identity token (e.g., Yubikey), or worn identity token (e.g., NFCRing) could stand in for this.

- Generally an update/upgrade model that the mass public seems to find acceptable (though I ... have my doubts).

And, though I said I'd exclude it: the apps ecosystem, both in terms of popular social networking tools, and a rich market for developing highly-specific applications for particular niche needs, whether commercial, institutional, activity-specific, or recreational.

The touch-based environment really seems like it should be possible to meet within a desktop/laptop context, and given existence of AndroidOS (or similar/compatible) emulators / environments, I suspect is.

Battery life is probably the biggest direct technical challenge. While reading your reply the thought occurs that with SoC/SBC systems, it might be possible to run a low-power mobile module which is independently active when mobile-only services are required, with data sharing through storage to the main system.

Further offloading comms load (4/5G networking, voice comms) to external devices (mobile hotspot, dedicated feature phone) could provide yet further optimisations.

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#149
Huge problem (for me) with SaifishOS is… annoying UI. I know that a lot of people swear by swipe navigation but it's just darn inconvenient and imprecise (or rather - require a lot of precission to select desired option)… I tried to get used to it for a long time and I simply couldn't. Having to pay effin lot of attention each time I tried to do anything with the phone was simply to much…

Re: SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The browser is based on Firefox with a 2 digit version number. The OS runs (probably some subset of) Android applications, no? Is Mozilla's build of Firefox not supported?

Yes, there is Android app support. Firefox should work without major problems (I use it rarely.) But it's kind of backwards, first offering a Gnu/Linux phone, but then a fundmental application like web browser should be run under Android.

Is it actually run in an Android VM?

I use an OS as a step to run applications. Why would someone use Sailfish if it can not run applications, or do they expect mobile development firms to start supporting a distant third OS? Serious question, there is a real chicken and egg problem here.

I think that I have simple needs from a mobile OS. CalDAV and CardDAV sync, provide a mobile hotspot, record calls. On Android those functions are provided by applications - so I consider myself a user of these applications, not a user of Android. I'm probably the ideal customer for a Sailfish OS, so long as it provides these features or can run apps that do.

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