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Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

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Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#141

Post by StarGrit »

Mashimo wrote: post #139
StarGrit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If getting a small vacuum out quickly is a big mental load, I dunno what to say to that. It all seems like it isn't necessary. It is like having a smart fridge or something that produce ice-cubes for me and loads of other stupid kitchen gadgets. I didn't feel the need to have a robot vacuum cleaner in the past and I don't feel the need to have one now. Especially with all the iffy spying stuff that it might be doing.…

The cheaper ones are great, because they don't connect to an app or wifi. Mine just has a remote with a timer. Like I wrote you, mine has been going for 6 or 7 years. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, I'm trying to explain why you have one. Because YOU said that you don't understand it. I'm trying to explain my needs. No need to shame me. Of all the household items i have, the robot vacuum I would certainly…

As I said. I am not interested in any of this. I am glad you find it useful, but I have the level of technology I am comfortable with.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#142

Post by gausswho »

opan wrote: post #103
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight. A couple of years ago, I subscribed to Peacock Premium (or whatever it was called). The selling point was access to all their library. At that time, it was ad-free. It is now packed with ads, and they want me to upgrade to “Peacock Squeal Like A Pig,” or whatever they call it. Instead, I just canceled my subscription, and a…

I would encourage you to partake in sharing files with your neighbor, and on the occasion you feel strongly you want to support something, get that subscription for a month or buy some merch or similar to show you really appreciate what you watched.

It's what we've come to. If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't theft. And in a market where data theft is built into the price, well... you are the one to set the price and the recipient of who you deem deserves it.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#143

Post by smt88 »

StarGrit wrote: post #71
Jeremy1026 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but a cleaner coming twice is the same cost of a robot vacuum that will work for a couple of years, typically. They do an okay enough job, but they need to run daily, sometimes twice a day, to really keep up considering it's limitations.

It really depends on how big your properties is. A cleaner here could be done in less than an hour and there is no cleaner charging £150 an hour.

What math are you doing here?

Robovacuums don't cost £150 an hour. If you buy one for £500 and run it every day for two years, you're paying ~70p per hour. Are there any cleaners who charge less than £1 per visit?

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#144

Post by fukka42 »

Mashimo wrote: post #139
StarGrit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If getting a small vacuum out quickly is a big mental load, I dunno what to say to that. It all seems like it isn't necessary. It is like having a smart fridge or something that produce ice-cubes for me and loads of other stupid kitchen gadgets. I didn't feel the need to have a robot vacuum cleaner in the past and I don't feel the need to have one now. Especially with all the iffy spying stuff that it might be doing.…

The cheaper ones are great, because they don't connect to an app or wifi. Mine just has a remote with a timer. Like I wrote you, mine has been going for 6 or 7 years. I'm not trying to convince you to buy one, I'm trying to explain why you have one. Because YOU said that you don't understand it. I'm trying to explain my needs. No need to shame me. Of all the household items i have, the robot vacuum I would certainly…

Which one is that? I want one without cloud and valetudo seems like a pain. Buying an 800 dollar vacuum only to risk bricking it right away is scary. I'd buy a simple one for $80 right away though.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#145

Post by goku12 »

334f905d22bc19 wrote: post #123
goku12 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I have no skin in this game --- my vacuum is as dumb as they come, and can be fixed with basic machine shop tools.) The real question is, is that still an option? If it is, then for how long? Sadly, there are several other product lines that have entirely crossed that line a while ago.

If the day ever comes where this is not an option anymore, then I will just clean my house with a broom. Same thing goes for washing machines. If I can't buy one without internet, then I will clean my clothes by hand. Smart things are the worst shit ever. They make everything take longer, given the debugging/upgrading overhead. Not buying into that. What would be smart, would be a washing machine that cleans, dries,…

> If the day ever comes where this is not an option anymore, then I will just clean my house with a broom. Same thing goes for washing machines. If I can't buy one without internet, then I will clean my clothes by hand.

Perfect! I wish a large enough section of the population took this principled stance. Those greedy corpos wouldn't be abusing their customers so much if the latter were united in denying them the market and the opportunity. Those 'smart devices' really need and deserve a lobotomy.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#146

Post by 0xffff2 »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #131
0xffff2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's basically how Kindle pricing works ($X with ads, or $X+$Y without ads) and it's infinitely better having the choice. If Amazon ever gets rid of the without ad version they will lose me as a customer overnight. Likewise, there are a whole lot of products that don't have an "unsubsidized" version that I simply refuse to purchase (or have purchased and returned after confirming that they will not work when…

Does it actually make a difference? I have an old Kindle (from 2013 I think) and I opted for the ad version. I only see ads on the lock screen, which means I never really read the ads. The few times I’ve looked at them intentionally, they were books I’d never consider reading, just from the title and cover; in other words, a terrible ad for the recipient. Does the ad-free version not collect your data too?

I don't actually care if they collect my data in that particular case. There's really nothing of significance that Amazon gets from my reading habits that it Visa doesn't already get from my purchasing the book in the first place.

I care if I see ads, even if I "don't read them". And when it comes to other devices, like IP security cameras I might care a lot more about whether the manufacturer has access to the device once it's set up.

My goal was just to point out that there is at least one existing case where you can pick between a subsidized and unsubsidized (or less subisdized if you prefer) product, and having the choice is strictly better than not having the choice.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#147

Post by chipsrafferty »

smt88 wrote: post #115
godelski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you frame it that way you need to offer the other version. I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option. More specifically, what that differential in price would be too. At worst it would be interesting to have a price explicitly stating what our data is worth. Many people actually internalize that it's not that valuable, but doing this would make it explicit.

> I do wonder how many people would buy non-spy versions of devices given the option. Depending on the discount for the spyware version, I'd guess close to zero. The general public has become completely numb to being spied on. It's hard to get someone to give up $50 (a real cost) for something nebulous like "very slightly less of your life is known by marketing companies".

I'd pay for it if I could somehow know that they also deleted all the data they tracked in the past (impossible since they already sold it 100x)

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#148

Post by chipsrafferty »

GJim wrote: post #105
immibis wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be forced to present both options, and the price difference must equal the revenue they actually make from spying.

Once again, I'm amazed some HN readers, like yourself, are unfamiliar with the basic tenets of the GDPR. (Hint: A company cannot provide a service on the condition that you provide unnecessary personal data or consent to spying) If you work in a tech field, there is simply no reason for such ignorance.

It's adorable that you think every company actually abides by these rules. There have been class action lawsuits recently against the largest tech companies. Why wouldn't the smaller ones break the rules too?

It's akin to cheating in financial markets. Hedge funds will gladly commit fraud or other cheating methods as long as the fine is less than the income gained.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#149

Post by StarGrit »

smt88 wrote: post #143
StarGrit wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on how big your properties is. A cleaner here could be done in less than an hour and there is no cleaner charging £150 an hour.

What math are you doing here? Robovacuums don't cost £150 an hour. If you buy one for £500 and run it every day for two years, you're paying ~70p per hour. Are there any cleaners who charge less than £1 per visit?

I was being hyperbolic because people seem to be overstating the cost of a cleaner.

I used to pay my Spainish cleaners about €20 euros a week for two cleaners. Granted that was while ago, but it was peanuts.

Also I'd rather have cleaner do it properly, than by a robovac that (as everyone says on the sibling comments) does half a job.

Re: Vacuum bricked after user blocks data collection – user mods it to run anyway

#150

Post by chipsrafferty »

smt88 wrote: post #143
StarGrit wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on how big your properties is. A cleaner here could be done in less than an hour and there is no cleaner charging £150 an hour.

What math are you doing here? Robovacuums don't cost £150 an hour. If you buy one for £500 and run it every day for two years, you're paying ~70p per hour. Are there any cleaners who charge less than £1 per visit?

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