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Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

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Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#141

Post by banannaise »

comrade1234 wrote: post #129
simonsarris wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, one could write something like "I cannot imagine why people actually like ski resorts" - 100% likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is fly down a mountain and not hit any trees (about 45 more deaths per year than poker in the US) - you're stuck sitting in a lift or a line and following rules for hours - there are no victory conditions

Skiing is downright sisyphean. I'm only sort of joking - I live in Switzerland and since I started ski-touring, where you climb up the mountain and then ski down it, this feeling is even stronger. But I think Sisyphus must have gotten at least some satisfaction for almost reaching the top.

Camus strikes again.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#142

Post by evan_ »

prodigycorp wrote: post #99
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a theory that the poker winnings were not the scam. The scam was that the criminal element would HELP the NBA players cheat at poker, and then blackmail them with that info to change the outcomes of NBA games, which they were betting on, from which they could derive greater scale of winnings.

imo that doesn't make sense. All the online betting platforms will cut off the sharps. If you are net profitable and you make too much money from them, you will get banned.

with that level of sophistication I’m sure they’re not using the inside info to place bets on retail platforms.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#143

Post by dboreham »

rs186 wrote: post #53
Aurornis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The table didn’t actually use X-rays. They’re using X-ray to mean it could be seen through with special cameras, perhaps IR sensitive.

I looked up the term "X-ray table" but couldn't find anything relevant except very recent results about this specific news. Sounds like FBI invented this very stupid/confusing name for the story when they could have used much something much better and clearer. X-ray really has nothing to do with this.

I remember as a kid seeing comics imported from the US that had ads for "x-ray specs". My first clue that the US advertising standards were not quite the same as other countries. Perhaps it's a similar idea to that?

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#144

Post by jimbokun »

otherme123 wrote: post #69
JohnMakin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone. Besides…

Some professional poker player told me this anecdote: he was playing at a table with a celebrity. He quickly noticed he has a tell (he did something with his chips when he had a powerful hand or was bluffing, don't remember), and half the table also noticed the same or similar tells. They proceeded to clean his stash. At the table statistics matter between pros, but if you are not aware of your flaws, you might as we…

This sounds similar to an article I read about major league pitchers, who must learn to avoid "tells" for the pitch they are about to throw, while opposing teams pour over video of their previous outings looking for those tells.

Some pitchers even said they would deliberately perform a "tell" that opponents had identified then throw a different pitch.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#145

Post by dboreham »

ranadomo wrote: post #119
iambateman wrote: post #72

If these folks had used this level of creativity and determination to make something useful…I bet their results would’ve been fantastic.

This is a common fallacy. Criminals often turn to crime because they're not very good at honest endeavors. Having failed to succeed on a fair playing field (hard), they victimize the weak and take advantage of others' naivety and trust (easy). Almost nothing about crime is indicative of an intelligent mind that could be put to good use. It's a lot of lowlife midwits who are bitter they have no chance to compete or as…

And then they run for office..

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#146

Post by evan_ »

kasey_junk wrote: post #60
Forgeties79 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what sounds like an Ocean's Eleven film plot, prosecutors say these "unwitting" victims were cheated out of at least $7m (£5.25m) in poker games - with one person losing at least $1.8m. Definitely a lot of work but that seems like a half decent payday to me.

An nba coach was one of 30 people indicted in the scheme. He made about 5m a year at his straight job.

$5M is a lot unless you have a crippling gambling addiction.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#147

Post by jimbokun »

darepublic wrote: post #103
JohnMakin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“just play better poker” like that’s an easy thing to do in a game of chance and incomplete information, with variance having years or decades long tails. not to mention it’s an unsolved game, so “better” poker doesn’t even really have a set definition and depends on tons of variables. and they literally knew what hole cards were coming - that’s vastly more of an edge than playing “better poker” than someone. Besides…

I understand the "need" for cheating but it does seem like overkill the way they cheated, at least as described. They've already got colluders, and then the auto shuffler reads the cards, and then they've ALSO got the contact lenses? Just some marked cards would have been sufficient. And then the rare time the fish catches up after being behind is your "let them win a hand and get traction". It just seems like they r…

What's the increased risk of cheating more?

Once you're cheating and colluding you are in danger of going to jail, and it's not clear that more cheating makes it more likely to be caught.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#148

Post by dimal »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

I dislike all gambling except poker. Anything that is purely chance and not within my control at all (roulette, sports betting) is dull and stressful. The odds are always against you. Poker has a big element of chance of course, but it’s really a game of skill. It hits a sweet spot of mathematics and social engineering that lights up a lot of neurons in a very engaging way.

When it comes to lying, in the real world I tend to be hypermoral and honest to a fault. It’s fun to have a game structure where dishonesty and aggression are acceptable.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#149

Post by Forgeties79 »

elicash wrote: post #71
Forgeties79 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what sounds like an Ocean's Eleven film plot, prosecutors say these "unwitting" victims were cheated out of at least $7m (£5.25m) in poker games - with one person losing at least $1.8m. Definitely a lot of work but that seems like a half decent payday to me.

More than 30 arrests, and the scheme dates back to as early as 2019. The article says "A cut OF THE PROFITS went to those who helped in the plot," implying that the $7m wasn't truly profit but actually revenue? The writing is unclear to me. I'm not sure if this is before paying out to 30+ people over several years, or after, but article implies before, that it's how much was taken from victims. That I think makes the…

Honestly I imagine a lot of this just became chasing yet another thrill that net you maybe tens of thousands of dollars. I could totally see why someone would be in to that. Most hobbies drain your bank account after all lol

Same reason there are people out there who shoplift even though they don’t need what they’re grabbing. The thrill of the act.

Re: Poker fraud used X-ray tables, high-tech glasses and NBA players

#150

Post by jm4 »

everdrive wrote: post #75

This is probably a very HN comment, but I cannot imagine why people actually like gambling and poker: - high likelihood you lose money - the point of the game is to lie to friends and strangers - you're stuck sitting at a table and following rules for hours - the only victory condition is that you take money from other people

Poker is a great game. There are so many aspects to it where you can go down a rabbit hole of strategy to improve your game - there's math, making decisions with incomplete information, deduction, reading people, all kinds of non-verbal communication, etc. Although there's chance involved, it is undoubtedly a skill game. The gambling is one of the unfortunate aspects, but it just doesn't play the same without some money involved. You can get around that a little bit with house games where everyone throws in $20 or small buy-in sit and go games at a casino.

Another game that's worth checking out if some of this sounds interesting but you really don't like gambling is "Blood on the Clocktower". It's a social logic and deduction party game. There's chance, bluffing, incomplete information, trying to figure out what other players have, etc. It's completely different, but it can scratch some of the same itches and it's a blast to play. My friends and I play it with our kids.

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