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Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

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Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#141

Post by actionfromafar »

anigbrowl wrote: post #89
malux85 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speak up citizens! Email the state congressman and tell them what you think. Since (pretty much) nobody does this, if a few hundred people do it, they will sit up and take notice. It takes less people than you might think. Since coordinating this with a bunch of strangers (I.e. the public) is difficult, the most effective way is to normalise speaking up in our culture. Of course normalising it will increase the incom…

If that's the case, why do people in Congress keep voting for things their constituents don't like? When they get booed at town halls they just dismiss it as being the work of paid activists.

Yeah, Republicans hide from townhalls. Most of them have one constituent, Trump.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#143

Post by actionfromafar »

random3 wrote: post #133
neilv wrote: post #91

> Omnilert later admitted the incident was a “false positive” but claimed the system “functioned as intended,” saying its purpose is to “prioritize safety and awareness through rapid human verification.” It just created a situation in which a bunch of people with guns were told that some teen had a gun. That's a very unsafe situation that the system created, out of nothing. And some teen may be traumatized. Again, un…

It’s actually “AI swarmed” since no human reasoning, only execution, was exerted - basically have an AI directing resources.

Reverse Centaur. MANNA.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#144

Post by hinkley »

jawns wrote: post #96

I expect that John Bryan -- who produces content as The Civil Rights Lawyer https://thecivilrightslawyer.com -- will have something to say about it. He frequently criticizes the legality of police holding people at gunpoint based on flimsy information, because the law considers it a use of force, which needs to be justified. For instance, he's done several videos about "high risk" vehicle stops, where a car is mistak…

Is use of force without justification automatically excessive force or is there a gray area?

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#145

Post by mrguyorama »

some_random wrote: post #76
oceanplexian wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the system used any kind of logic whatsoever a CCW permit would not only allow you to bypass airport security but also carry in the airport (Speaking as both a pilot and a permit holder) Would probably eliminate the need for the TSA security theater so that will probably never happen.

The point of the security theater is to assuage the 95th percentile scared-of-everything crowd, they're the same people who want no guns signs in public parks.

No.

Right from the beginning it was a handout to groups who built the scanning equipment, who were basically personal friends with people in the admin. We paid absurd prices for niche equipment, a lot of which was never even deployed and just sat in storage.

Several of the hijackers were literally given extended searches by security that day.

A reminder that what actually stopped hijackings (like, nearly entirely) was locking the cabin door, which was always doable, and has not ever been breached. Not only did this stop terrorist hijackings, it stopped more casual hijackings that used to be normal, it could also stop "inside man" style hijackings like that one with a disgruntled FedEx pilot, it was nearly free to implement, always available, harms no one's rights, doesn't turn airport security into a juicy bombing target, doesn't slow down an important part of the economy, doesn't invent a massive bureaucracy and LEO in the arms of a new american agency that has the goal of suppressing domestic problems and has never done anything useful. Keep in mind, shutting the cockpit door is literally how the terrorists themselves protected themselves from being stopped and is the reason Flight 93 couldn't be recovered.

TSA is utterly ineffective. They have never stopped an attack, regularly fail their internal audits, the jobs suck, and they pay poorly and provide minimal training.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#146

Post by Zigurd »

wat10000 wrote: post #115
bilbo0s wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And some teen may be traumatized. Um. That's not really the danger here. The danger is that it's as clear as day that in the future someone is gonna be killed. That's not just a possibility. It's a certainty given the way the system is set up. This tech is not supposed to be used in this fashion. It's not ready.

I fully agree, but we also really need to get to a place where drawing the attention of police isn't an axiomatically life-threatening situation.

If the US wasn't psychotic, not all police would have to be armed, and not every police response would be an armed response.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#147

Post by JustExAWS »

proee wrote: post #126
JustExAWS wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the AI algorithm, it’s the police response I’m questioning would be different.

How many audit the police videos have you seen on Youtube? There are an insufferable amount of "white" people getting destroyed by the cops. If you replace the "white" people in these videos with "black" then 99% of viewers would assume the cops are hardcore racist, when in fact, they are just bad cops - very bad cops, that have some deep psychological issues - probably rooted from a traumatic childhood.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/reports/one-in-five-dispar...

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_anal...

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/12/22/policing_survey...

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#148

Post by janalsncm »

neilv wrote: post #91

> Omnilert later admitted the incident was a “false positive” but claimed the system “functioned as intended,” saying its purpose is to “prioritize safety and awareness through rapid human verification.” It just created a situation in which a bunch of people with guns were told that some teen had a gun. That's a very unsafe situation that the system created, out of nothing. And some teen may be traumatized. Again, un…

In any system, there are false positives and false negatives. In some situations (like a high recall disease detection) false negatives are much worse than false positives, because the cost of a false positive is a more rigorous screening.

But in this case both are bad. If it was a false negative students might need therapy for a more tragic reason.

Aside from improving the quality of the detection model, we should try to reduce the “cost” of both failure modes as much as possible. Putting a human in the loop or having secondary checks are ways to do that.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#149

Post by hinkley »

proee wrote: post #109
JustExAWS wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting pulled aside by TSA for secondary screening is nowhere in the ball park of being rushed at gunpoint as a teenager and told to lay down on the ground where one false move will get you shot by a trigger happy cop that probably won’t face any consequences - especially if the innocent victim is a Black male. In fact, they will probably demonize the victim to find sn excuse why he deserved to get shot.

I wasn't implying TSA-cargo-pant-groping is comparable. My point is to show escalation in public facing systems. We have been dealing with TSA. Now we get AI Scanners. What's next? Also, no need to escalate this into a race issue.

But it was a black man they harassed.

Re: Armed police swarm student after AI mistakes bag of Doritos for a weapon

#150

Post by spankibalt »

wat10000 wrote: post #104
ggreer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to a news article[1], a human did review the video/image and flagged it as a false positive. It was the principal who told the school cop, who then called other cops: > The Department of School Safety and Security quickly reviewed and canceled the initial alert after confirming there was no weapon. I contacted our school resource officer (SRO) and reported the matter to him, and he contacted the local preci…

Sounds like a "better safe than sorry" approach. If you ignore the alert on the basis that it's a false positive, then it turns out it really was a gun and the person shoots somebody, you're going to get sued into the ground, fired, name plastered all over the media, etc. On the other hand, if you call in the cops and there wasn't a gun, you're fine.

> "On the other hand, if you call in the cops and there wasn't a gun, you're fine."

Yeah, cause cops have never shot somebody unarmed. And you can bet your ass that the possible follow-up lawsuit to such a debacle's got "your" name on it.

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