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Doomsday scoreboard

doomsday.march1studios.com

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Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#141

Post by stogot »

fluoridation wrote: post #137
stogot wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a widely researched topic by scholars. Is there something new or relevant you’re making a case for? Or is this purposefully obtuse

LOL, "researched". >Is there something new or relevant you’re making a case for? New? Not, not really. It's not at all new that the official position of the church ("Jesus is entirely mortal and entirely divine") is inherently self-contradictory. I mean, what the hell. If I didn't know any better I'd think an atheist came up with it to troll early Christians. Try saying something similar about literally anything else…

Do you have similar concerns about the three in one resonance structures of nitrate? Or are you cherry picking random laws to fit a preconceived position?

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#142

Post by fluoridation »

stogot wrote: post #141
fluoridation wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, "researched". >Is there something new or relevant you’re making a case for? New? Not, not really. It's not at all new that the official position of the church ("Jesus is entirely mortal and entirely divine") is inherently self-contradictory. I mean, what the hell. If I didn't know any better I'd think an atheist came up with it to troll early Christians. Try saying something similar about literally anything else…

Do you have similar concerns about the three in one resonance structures of nitrate? Or are you cherry picking random laws to fit a preconceived position?

I would have personally gone with the particle-wave duality as an example.

The day the church successfully uses its position on the divinity of Jesus Christ to engineer something rather than letting it remain as an abstract bit of sophistry, I promise I'll shut up about it.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#143

Post by stogot »

fluoridation wrote: post #142
stogot wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have similar concerns about the three in one resonance structures of nitrate? Or are you cherry picking random laws to fit a preconceived position?

I would have personally gone with the particle-wave duality as an example. The day the church successfully uses its position on the divinity of Jesus Christ to engineer something rather than letting it remain as an abstract bit of sophistry, I promise I'll shut up about it.

id have you believe instead of just “shutting up”. you’ve avoided answering the fact that analogies exist. I’ll take it that you cannot articulate a reasonable response

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#144

Post by jungturk »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #135
jungturk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't disagree with any of that, and I don't want to minimize the seriousness of the issues you've cited, but that kind of reinforces the implication of the scorecard? People are persistently presented with perils (plagues, parasites, pollution, power-hungry politicians, propaganda, plutonium-powered projectiles, etc...) and humanity keeps finding a way through (though certainly at great personal and population-wide…

What would a Neanderthal say about this? What would a Denesovian say about this?

More generally, what would _any_ collapsed society or extinct evolutionary branch have to say?

"Not much", outside of what they'd contributed to any surviving lines.

To your point, whether we're winning or losing very much depends on how we define our team.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#145

Post by fluoridation »

stogot wrote: post #143
fluoridation wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have personally gone with the particle-wave duality as an example. The day the church successfully uses its position on the divinity of Jesus Christ to engineer something rather than letting it remain as an abstract bit of sophistry, I promise I'll shut up about it.

id have you believe instead of just “shutting up”. you’ve avoided answering the fact that analogies exist. I’ll take it that you cannot articulate a reasonable response

>You’re essentially asking for a mathematical proof

Mathematical proofs are internally consistent. Also, yes, mathematics is used in engineering. For example (as if one was needed), GPS is all about geometry.

>Do you deny the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, His divinity, or how the “church” defines it?

I don't have a problem answering this question, but I would like to know what my personal position has to do with anything.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#146

Post by svieira »

fluoridation wrote: post #140
svieira wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not inherently self-contradictory for us to say "Jesus revealed Himself as the Son of God and the Son of Man ... how can we properly speak about that?" https://www.newadvent.org/summa/4002.htm#article2 - now that requires a lot of extra distinctions that we don't normally think about when thinking about being and essence, but it's certainly not impossible. "Mr. Archibald Potterfarthing is at the same time the Ch…

>it is possible for there to be one person with two natures just as well as there can be one person with two titles. Of course, but that falls apart as soon as you reread the dogma. Jesus is entirely human and entirely divine. He is both things in the same way at the same time. He has to be entirely human for his sacrifice to have any meaning, but he has to entirely divine... I can't remember why. So he could be wors…

> He is both things in the same way at the same time

Not quite. He has a divine nature and a human nature. There is only one person, two natures, analogous to one person two job titles. He has both natures, fully.

> Did he die or didn't he?

Having two natures, he can experience things that people without two natures cannot experience. Like the experience of death in His human nature that in no way affected His divine nature (analogous to "experiencing censure as a judge, but still being able to practice medicine"). Fortunately, death isn't a cessation of human nature, merely an interrupting of part of its actuality (that is, an evil). You and I will still possess a human nature after we die. Just as we both would possess a human nature if we lost part of our bodies, we still possess a human nature after we lose our bodies completely in death.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#147

Post by krapp »

fluoridation wrote: post #66
kulahan wrote: post #59

One mildly interesting fact that MANY Christians get wrong: There is no lead-up to the apocalypse. The Messiah will return "like a thief in the night" and "nobody, except my Father, knows the hour of my return" (I probably butchered those two quotes). Either way, the Bible is pretty clear (as was Jesus): there will be zero indication the apocalypse is coming. None. It'll just... start.

The book of Revelation also cites various signs that are metaphorical enough to be applied to just about anything. It's pointless to cite the Bible to defend a theological position, because someone else can cite a different part that can be interpreted to say the exact opposite.

I wish Christians would realize the Book of Revelations is about the past (probably about Nero Caesar and Roman persecution of Christians) and not the future and stop embarrassing themselves.

Stop trying to figure out which scary new technology is the Number of the Beast. Stop trying to figure out which scary new politician is the Antichrist. Stop trying to figure out what any of that shit means, it doesn't mean anything anymore and the only apocalypse that's going to happen is the one we ourselves create, in part because we persist in our delusion that we don't really have to worry about this world because God's going to burn it all down anyway.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#148

Post by bloppe »

vdupras wrote: post #138
bloppe wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and they didn't speak English either, but I don't see how that's relevant.

You wrote "humans are good at adaptation, case in point, mass extinction survival". I reply "they weren't human then". The relevance is direct.

Humans: by far the most populous large animals on the planet, thriving in by far the most diverse set of environments in and around the planet, are clearly good at adaptation. The fact that Eskimos and Bedouin and uncontacted amazonian tribes are all the same species is rather remarkable.

If anything, we have a much better shot at surviving the next mass extinction than we had at surviving prior ones, now that we have so many advantages.

I probably won't survive it because I'm a smooth brained weakling, but some humans surely will

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#149

Post by vdupras »

bloppe wrote: post #148
vdupras wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote "humans are good at adaptation, case in point, mass extinction survival". I reply "they weren't human then". The relevance is direct.

Humans: by far the most populous large animals on the planet, thriving in by far the most diverse set of environments in and around the planet, are clearly good at adaptation. The fact that Eskimos and Bedouin and uncontacted amazonian tribes are all the same species is rather remarkable. If anything, we have a much better shot at surviving the next mass extinction than we had at surviving prior ones, now that we hav…

I'm not arguing that humans are not adaptable, I'm just pointing out a fallacy in your original argument. Whether humans are adaptable or not is another matter.

Re: Doomsday scoreboard

#150

Post by fluoridation »

svieira wrote: post #146
fluoridation wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it is possible for there to be one person with two natures just as well as there can be one person with two titles. Of course, but that falls apart as soon as you reread the dogma. Jesus is entirely human and entirely divine. He is both things in the same way at the same time. He has to be entirely human for his sacrifice to have any meaning, but he has to entirely divine... I can't remember why. So he could be wors…

> He is both things in the same way at the same time Not quite. He has a divine nature and a human nature. There is only one person, two natures, analogous to one person two job titles. He has both natures, fully. > Did he die or didn't he? Having two natures, he can experience things that people without two natures cannot experience. Like the experience of death in His human nature that in no way affected His divine…

>Not quite. [...] He has both natures, fully.

You're contradicting yourself.

>analogous to "experiencing censure as a judge, but still being able to practice medicine"

That's only possible because, as I said, being a judge is not the totality of a person. If you strip a judge of his title the parts of him that are a person still remain. If you strip a person of their humanity then there's nothing left, because there's nothing of a person that's not human.

A normal person according to Christianity is closer to having two natures in the way you describe, because their body is mortal while their soul isn't. But Jesus' body should be equally as divine as his soul. So then how can it die? If he was just an immortal soul in a mortal body then he was just a regular human.

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