Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

telegraph.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–149 of 149 posts

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#141

Post by fatbird »

serf wrote: post #74
testing22321 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries, or that people in many countries get paid time off to move home , or that people in other countries don’t go into crippling debt for education. No, no. THAT is not acceptable.

>Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries there is a difference between 'good healthcare' and 'available healthcare'. the US has some of the highest quality healthcare in the world to those that it is made available to. the worlds' most rich and famous come to the US for treatment -- and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand. I…

Aggregate health outcomes in the US are worse than every other country with UHC. Life expectancy is worse in the US than every other country with UHC. You cannot claim socialized medicine sucks when it produces better outcomes overall, and for every NHS horror story you throw down, I've got two American stories caused by poverty, HMOs, or culture war swings.

ETA: also, every country with UHC spends less on it as a portion of GDP than US public funding of non-universal health care.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#142

Post by testing22321 »

serf wrote: post #74
testing22321 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries, or that people in many countries get paid time off to move home , or that people in other countries don’t go into crippling debt for education. No, no. THAT is not acceptable.

>Soon you’ll want Americans to know how good healthcare is in other countries there is a difference between 'good healthcare' and 'available healthcare'. the US has some of the highest quality healthcare in the world to those that it is made available to. the worlds' most rich and famous come to the US for treatment -- and the poorest in the US are among the most plentiful medical tourists to Malaysia and Thailand. I…

Of course the NHS is not perfect.

The US is by way and away the richest country on earth, and ostensibly the best country on earth.

Surely they would aim higher and build a better system than the NHS, right?

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#143

Post by kristopolous »

decimalenough wrote: post #113
kristopolous wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. It was that the market hypothesis of supply simply responding to demand doesn't actually hold. People sell things based on their perception of future consumer sentiments, calculated margins, defensible moats, lots of things. If someone wanted a compact sedan but the only thing for sale was SUVs, they aren't going to be like "I refuse! Bus pass for me" no. They will just bite the bullet and purch…

SUVS (and enormous trucks) are popular, but they are not "the only thing for sale". Alternatives do exist, they just not very, you know, popular.

Kind of. For a number of complex reasons SUVs are cheaper than sedans. I know with more stuff you think that would be more cost but things are complicated.

I mean look at Hyundai's ev line up. I drive a kona because it's the cheapest. The next most expensive car is the 5 and then their most expensive (up until recently) was also their smallest! The 6.

It's like twice the price and at the end of the day I just wanted to drive electric so I got the cheaper one.

But if the ioniq 2 had a US release I'd be on top of that real quick

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#144

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

crims0n wrote: post #75
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #58

If you had to get a loan for a car, you already couldn't afford it.

That really depends on the interest rate. If the going rate is good (especially 3% or below), why tie up the capital in a car purchase when you can be putting it to work elsewhere?

In that case, you don't have to get a loan, but you do anyways.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#145

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

antinomicus wrote: post #65
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #58

If you had to get a loan for a car, you already couldn't afford it.

Nope. This one out of all the comments in this thread screams out of touch tech guy. 80% of car purchases in America are financed. There are over 100 million car loans in America. Though in a more ideal world car loans should not be necessary, in this one, they very much are.

Most purchases being financed through debt isn't a compelling argument that people can afford the purchase. It's a highly predatory market for something that many people need just to survive.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#146

Post by tzs »

wbshaw wrote: post #134

If you think outright financing is bad, try leasing a car and then giving it back when they screw up the residual value estimate. Dealers will try to Jack you with every imaginable fee to get you to buy the car from then at the end of the lease. You also need to walk in the door with your own financing. Even if they give you financing through your preferred bank, it's not uncommon for them to juice the interest rate…

> You also need to walk in the door with your own financing

But also check out what the dealer/manufacturer offers. Sometimes there are factors other than just the terms of the loan to consider.

For example I financed my new car (2025 Hyundai Kona SEL Electric) through Hyundai because Hyundai was offering $7500 off if you financed through them. I could have gotten a better interest rate from my bank, but I'm going to pay the loan off early and even if I could have somehow gotten 0% from the bank it wouldn't have saved enough over the time I'll actually have to loan to come anywhere near matching that $7500 from Hyundai.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#147

Post by tzs »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #60

I just read that the average price of a car is now more than 50k. People are insane to buy these with huge loans. There are plenty of very nice cars in the 20k-40k range but somehow people feel compelled to spend a ton of money on their cars.

I've read that the average going above $50k for the first time in the US is largely due to two things:

1. There is enough financial uncertainty that many people are putting off buying a new car for now. The people most worried are also the people who would be buying one of those $20-40k cars. It's the upper end buyers who aren't being affected much by the uncertainty, so the average has gone up.

2. A lot of people bought EVs, which are more expensive than similar ICE cars, in the first 3 quarters to beat the end of the tax credits.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#148

Post by jemmyw »

benterix wrote: post #119
tharkun__ wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I usually have to remind the salesperson to stop talking to me in monthly payment terms. I always tell them to talk to me about final price including all interest. It's a bit of an uphill battle, where you have to tell them over and over. They're just so used to trying to sell the monthly payment. It's really no wonder that people that don't understand interest (many if not most) will fall for this. And if yo…

Temp beaters are not that bad, if you choose them wisely (like a boring 3-year old Toyota). Nothing fancy, no surprises, years ahead with just basic service. And a small crash will only break your car, not your heart.

a 3 year old toyota is a temp beater? I bought a 5 year old toyota and consider that pretty luxury compared to the 7-10 year old cars I've always previously purchased (edit: and I'd never call them beaters either, I've always looked after them). I've never financed a car, I think it's a crazy thing to do when there are so many good used cars available. And new doesn't mean without problems either, usually you can get good information on the reliability of older models that you won't know for new ones.

Re: Americans can't afford their cars any more and Wall Street is worried

#149

Post by tharkun__ »

jemmyw wrote: post #148
benterix wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temp beaters are not that bad, if you choose them wisely (like a boring 3-year old Toyota). Nothing fancy, no surprises, years ahead with just basic service. And a small crash will only break your car, not your heart.

a 3 year old toyota is a temp beater? I bought a 5 year old toyota and consider that pretty luxury compared to the 7-10 year old cars I've always previously purchased (edit: and I'd never call them beaters either, I've always looked after them). I've never financed a car, I think it's a crazy thing to do when there are so many good used cars available. And new doesn't mean without problems either, usually you can get…

This.

3 year is not a beater. My dad used to buy a new car every 3 years, back in the hey days when his company would have a deal with the local dealership (of one particular brand that they like for some reason - probably CEO friendship or something) to get their employees better terms (without negotiating), so we enjoyed a new car every 3-ish years when I was a kid. But that's not a beater.

The beater cars I owned were about 10 years old when I bought them. And I drove them for like 3-ish more years before selling again.

Post reply on HN