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Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

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Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#141
post #34

I (like many) started playing chess online during COVID and despite being too damn old, I wanted to see how high I could climb in ratings. Soon I found Danya, then Gotham, then IMRosen. All who loved this damn game so much. Even found I liked Hikaru though as an oldster, so many of his memes went over my head. I soon realized that no matter how hard I tried, I would never be ranked, and I was fine with that because l…

You might not ever get titled, but a 1400 online is very much good enough to join your national chess federation and be middle of the pack competitive in local rated chess tournaments and the like.

Well, it is lichess and online (as I'm sure you're aware) is a very different kettle of fish than OTB.

But thank you for your kindness.

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#142
post #99

There's huge pink elephant that I think many aren't aware of here. A former chess world champion, Vladimir Kramnik, has turned into a sort of self satire seeking out cheaters in online chess. Basically everybody is cheating according to him, he even implied Hikaru Nakamura, the 2nd strongest player in the world, could be cheating. Eventually his sights fell on Danya. At first I thought they were both kind of playing…

We don’t even know yet how he died, isn’t it a bit early to pin it on someone?

It's not pinning anything on anybody. It's explaining the context to the probably 99% of people who have no idea what was going on here. Obviously this news was a shock to everybody, but it's also a case where you can kind of immediately understand why. Everybody could see he was fading before our eyes, but nobody realized quite how serious it was.

I can't imagine how awful his friend and boss feel right now. He was behaving extremely erratically on his final stream to the point that they dropped by at 1am (granted that's more like 3pm in typical chess player time) to try to get him to stop playing, calm down, and just go to bed. They're obviously going to be asking themselves if they could have done more. The same is even true of Hikaru who recounted his last conversation with Danya, which was again about trying to help him up, and he teared up while again wondering if he could have done more.

And the catalyst for his decline was the cheating accusations. Yet the one 'mitigating' thing for Kramnik is that Danya really fell out of touch with reality with regards to the accusations. He made it clear that he felt many, if not most, people felt he was cheating. But in reality, basically nobody did. Kramnik has become basically a meme to the point that his accusations hold about as much weight as being called a naughty name online.

Of course from Danya's perspective it was going to be much more painful because he mentioned that Kramnik was one of his chess idols growing up. And people don't understand the amount of work it takes to become very good at chess. To then have one of your idols turn around and claim you're cheating, which is essentially pissing on all your work, is going to sting. And Danya had an immense, substantially more than average, amount of reverence for the title of world champion, which he felt that was causing people to believe Kramnik.

He felt the world was turning against him, but it simply wasn't. And the catalyst for this change was the accusations.

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#144
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is being good at chess a proof of human intelligence?

Not that long ago I would have said no, but I increasingly think that intelligence is mostly about the ability to learn. And chess, at a high level, requires a mixture of achieving an extremely high degree of unconscious competence working right alongside a high degree of conscious competence for things like opening prep. And most, if not all, high level chess players that have tried, in earnest, to do things outside…

[dead]

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#145
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t even know yet how he died, isn’t it a bit early to pin it on someone?

It's not pinning anything on anybody. It's explaining the context to the probably 99% of people who have no idea what was going on here. Obviously this news was a shock to everybody, but it's also a case where you can kind of immediately understand why. Everybody could see he was fading before our eyes, but nobody realized quite how serious it was. I can't imagine how awful his friend and boss feel right now. He was…

These are things you know? Or this is what you imagine might have happened and what he might have been thinking? For me it makes quite a big difference on how seriously to take you, if you actually know him or not (not in a parasocial way).

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#146

Regarding the flagged/dead comment that links to concern about Daniel Naroditsky's health a few days ago, I don't think burrying our heads in the sand is correct approach now. It might have been wise to respect his privacy and not talk about him publicly and while he was alive and could read it, but now that posting it cannot affect his mental health, perhaps mental health awareness is important to talk about. (A sid…

Just watched his last stream that people were talking about on reddit, and his behavior was definitely strange. Saying random stuff then nodding off halfway, and being aggravated to put it simply.

[deleted]

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#147
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a link between high intelligence and depression as well?

is being good at chess a proof of human intelligence?

It definitely is, considering "good" to be a top 10 blitz player like Naroditsky was.

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#148
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not pinning anything on anybody. It's explaining the context to the probably 99% of people who have no idea what was going on here. Obviously this news was a shock to everybody, but it's also a case where you can kind of immediately understand why. Everybody could see he was fading before our eyes, but nobody realized quite how serious it was. I can't imagine how awful his friend and boss feel right now. He was…

These are things you know? Or this is what you imagine might have happened and what he might have been thinking? For me it makes quite a big difference on how seriously to take you, if you actually know him or not (not in a parasocial way).

This is not hypothetical. He made his views on the topic completely clear, repeatedly. The entire accusations had essentially started to become a major part of who he was and he endlessly focused on them. He also mentioned what I said about them coming from Kramnik and how that was particularly hurtful for him.

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#149
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are things you know? Or this is what you imagine might have happened and what he might have been thinking? For me it makes quite a big difference on how seriously to take you, if you actually know him or not (not in a parasocial way).

This is not hypothetical. He made his views on the topic completely clear, repeatedly. The entire accusations had essentially started to become a major part of who he was and he endlessly focused on them. He also mentioned what I said about them coming from Kramnik and how that was particularly hurtful for him.

Where? I watched his videos and I never saw him say anything like what you’ve written.

Re: Chess grandmaster Daniel Naroditsky has died

#150
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not hypothetical. He made his views on the topic completely clear, repeatedly. The entire accusations had essentially started to become a major part of who he was and he endlessly focused on them. He also mentioned what I said about them coming from Kramnik and how that was particularly hurtful for him.

Where? I watched his videos and I never saw him say anything like what you’ve written.

On his Twitch streams this issue was constantly brought up. While the frequency of discussion was obviously highest around the time of the accusations, it was brought up in basically every single stream, all alongside the very visible decline of his overall 'wellness' over the past ~2 years.

This [1] is from his final stream, and it's clear he was already at the breaking point. I feel most awful for his friend Bortnyk (one of the two voices you hear in the background there essentially having an intervention), he's going to be beating himself up thinking he could have done more, for years to come.

Everybody could see Danya deteriorating, but somehow I think nobody really realized just how 'real' it was. Magnus, who also regularly followed Danya's streams, has mentioned that he somewhat regrets not coming out publicly in defense of him. Probably in part because his views on cheating were already somewhat tainted at this point, and probably in part because nobody wanted to be the next person Kramnik started going after.

[1] - https://youtu.be/112JImX_cWM?t=8071

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