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NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

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Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#141
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment beside the first chart >Our main measure of progress. Bits per byte is, per Karpathy, "a much better measure than just the typical cross-entropy loss, because it further normalizes the loss on each token by the number of bytes of that token, making the metric tokenizer-invariant". Is so blindingly obvious, that I'm ashamed to think that I didn't think do it when trialing my own tokenizer approach on tinys…

Why hasn't anyone made a tokenizer that's 1 character per token. Is it because it requires an insane amount of compute? Or would the loss of efficiency make it dumber then modern tokenizers?

yes to both.

absolutely requires longer training time and more compute.

once trained, predictions need to hold through many more steps because each step processes one token. if a token early in a sentence heavily implies a token will occur later in the sentence then that awareness needs to be maintained while processing each intermediary token and each step is a bit lossy. the fewer steps you need to take before leveraging that knowledge the better the prediction.

if you had infinite compute and data for training then performance would be equivalent though, i think.

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#142
End to end training is a different beast, but finetuning and inference of impressive LLMs like QWEN3 can be done on pretty run of the mill hardware like Apple Silicon macs and gaming PCs if anyone wants a personalized assistant with character. Just ask AI how to finetune AI using unsloth (if using NVIDIA) or MLX (for apple) and it will give you ready to run python scripts.

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#143
post #107

Interesting exchange on the use of AI coding tools: curious how much did you write the code by hand of it? Karpathy: Good question, it's basically entirely hand-written (with tab autocomplete). I tried to use claude/codex agents a few times but they just didn't work well enough at all and net unhelpful, possibly the repo is too far off the data distribution. https://x.com/karpathy/status/1977758204139331904

That is a good thing to hear from someone as reputable as Karpathy. The folks who think we're on the cusp of AGI may want to temper their expectations a bit. I do love Claude Code, because one thing I periodically need to do is write some web code, which is not my favorite type of coding but happens to have incredibly good coverage in the training data. Claude is a much better web developer than I am. But for digging…

> But for digging into the algorithmic core of our automation tooling

What I find fascinating is reading this same thing in other context like “UI guru” will say “I would not let CC touch the UI but I let it rip on algorithmic core of our automation tooling cause it is better at it than me…”

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#144
post #112
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you find that?

It's in this screenshot: https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1977755430093980034 Edit: direct link to image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G3Jjxmba8AA5mSs.jpg

Aha, thanks!

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#146
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to train/sample large models, then use what the rest of the industry uses. My use case is different. I want something that I can run quickly on one GPU without worrying about whether it is supported or not. I am interested in convenience, not in squeezing out the last bit of performance from a card.

You wildly misunderstand pytorch.

What is there to misunderstand? It doesn't even install properly most of the time on my machine. You have to use a specific python version.

I gave up on all tools that depend on it for inference. llama-cpp compiles cleanly on my system for Vulkan. I want the same simplicity to test model training.

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#148
post #107

Interesting exchange on the use of AI coding tools: curious how much did you write the code by hand of it? Karpathy: Good question, it's basically entirely hand-written (with tab autocomplete). I tried to use claude/codex agents a few times but they just didn't work well enough at all and net unhelpful, possibly the repo is too far off the data distribution. https://x.com/karpathy/status/1977758204139331904

[deleted]

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#149
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the repo is too far off the data distribution ah, this explains why these models have been useless to me this whole time. everything i do is just too far off the data distribution!

Everything is unless your app is a React todolist or leatcode questions.

or a typical CRUD app architecture, or a common design pattern, or unit/integration test scaffolding, or standard CI/CD pipeline definitions, or one-off utility scripts, etc...

Like 80% of writing coding is just being a glorified autocomplete and AI is exceptional at automating those aspects. Yes, there is a lot more to being a developer than writing code, but, in those instances, AI really does make a difference in the amount of time one is able to spend focusing on domain-specific deliverables.

Re: NanoChat – The best ChatGPT that $100 can buy

#150
post #136

"The fastest way to feel the magic is to run the speedrun script speedrun.sh, which trains and inferences the $100 tier of nanochat. On an 8XH100 node at $24/hr, this gives a total run time of about 4 hours." I am clueless and don't understand this. Where is the $100 being spent? Some sort of API you have to pay to access? Some sort of virtual hardware you have to rent access to?

H100s are expensive NVIDIA GPUs, each costing about $30,000. 8XH100 means you have 8 of those wired together in a big server in a data center somewhere, so around a quarter of a million dollars worth of hardware in a single box. You need that much hardware because each H100 provides 80GB of GPU-accessible RAM, but to train this model you need to hold a LOT of model weights and training data in memory at once. 80*8 =…

Thank you.
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