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Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

kix.dev

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Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#141
post #83
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like a classic Sonnet issue. From my experience, Opus or GPT-5-high are less likely to do the "narrow instruction following without making sensible wider decisions based on context" than Sonnet.

This is "just use another Linux distro" all over again

Yes and no, it's a fair criticism to some extent. Inasamuch as I would agree that different models of the same type have superficial differences.

However, I also think that models which focus on higher reasoning effort in general are better at taking into account the wider context and not missing obvious implications from instructions. Non-reasoning or low-reasoning models serve a purpose, but to suggest they are akin to different flavours misses what is actually quite an important distinction.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#142
I don’t really understand why there’s so much hate for LLMs here, especially when it comes to using them for coding. In my experience, the people who regularly complain about these tools often seem more interested in proving how clever they are than actually solving real problems. They also tend to choose obscure programming languages where it’s nearly impossible to hire developers, or they spend hours arguing over how to save $20 a month.

Over time, they usually get what they want: they become the smartest ones left in the room, because all the good people have already moved on. What’s left behind is a codebase no one wants to work on, and you can’t hire for it either.

But maybe I’ve just worked with the wrong teams.

EDIT: Maybe this is just about trust. If you can’t bring yourself to trust code written by other human beings, whether it’s a package, a library, or even your own teammates, then of course you’re not going to trust code from an LLM. But that’s not really about quality, it’s about control. And the irony is that people who insist on controlling every last detail usually end up with fragile systems nobody else wants to touch, and teams nobody else wants to join.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#143
> They keep trying to make it work until they hit a wall -- and then they just keep banging their head against it.

This is because LLMs trend towards the centre of the human cognitive bell curve in most things, and a LOT of humans use this same problem solving approach.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#144

I don’t really understand why there’s so much hate for LLMs here, especially when it comes to using them for coding. In my experience, the people who regularly complain about these tools often seem more interested in proving how clever they are than actually solving real problems. They also tend to choose obscure programming languages where it’s nearly impossible to hire developers, or they spend hours arguing over h…

I regularly check in on using LLMs. But a key criteria for me is that an LLM needs to objectively make me more efficient, not subjectively.

Often I find myself cursing at the LLM for not understanding what I mean - which is expensive in lost time / cost of tokens.

It is easy to say: Then just don't use LLMs. But in reality, it is not too easy to break out of these loops of explaining, and it is extremely hard to assess when not to trust that the LLM will not be able to finish the task.

I also find that LLMs consistently don't follow guidelines. Eg. to never use coercions in TypeScript (It always gets in a rogue `as` somewhere) - to which I can not trust the output and needs to be extra vigilant reviewing.

I use LLMs for what they are good at. Sketching up a page in React/Tailwind, sketching up a small test suite - everything that can be deemed a translation task.

I don't use LLMs for tasks that are reasoning heavy: Data modelling, architecture, large complex refactors - things that require deep domain knowledge and reasoning.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#145
> Sure, you can overengineer your prompt to try get them to ask more questions (Roo for example, does a decent job at this) -- but it's very likely still won't.

Not in my experience. And it's not "overengineering" your prompt, it's just writing your prompt.

For anything serious, I always end every relevant request with an instruction to repeat back to me the full design of my instructions or ask me necessary clarifying questions first if I've left anything unclear, before writing any code. It always does.

And I don't mind having to write that, because sometimes I don't want that. I just want to ask it for a quick script and assume it can fill in the gaps because that's faster.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#146
post #37

Recently, I asked Codex CLI to refactor some HTML files. It didn't literally copy and pasted snippets here and there as I would have done myself, it rewrote them from memory, removing comments in the process. There was a section with 40 successive links with complex URLs. A few days later, just before deployment to production, I wanted to double check all 40 links. First one worked. Second one worked. Third one worke…

Yeah this sort of thing is a huge time waster with LLMs.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#147

I don’t really understand why there’s so much hate for LLMs here, especially when it comes to using them for coding. In my experience, the people who regularly complain about these tools often seem more interested in proving how clever they are than actually solving real problems. They also tend to choose obscure programming languages where it’s nearly impossible to hire developers, or they spend hours arguing over h…

It has been discussed ad nauseum. It demolishes learning curve all of us with decade(s) of experience went through, to become seniors we are. Its not a function of age, not a function of time spent staring at some screen or churning our basic crud apps, its function of hard experience, frustration, hard won battles, grokking underlying technologies or algorithms.

Llms provide little of that, they make people lazy, juniors stay juniors forever, even degrading mentally in some aspects. People need struggle to grow, when you have somebody who had his hand held whole life they are useless human disconnected from reality, unable to self-sufficiently achieve anything significant. Too easy life destroys both humans and animals alike (many experiments have been done on that, with damning results).

There is much more like hallucinations, questionable added value of stuff that confidently looks OK but has underlying hard-to-debug bugs but above should be enough for a start.

I suggest actually reading those conversations, not just skimming through them, this has been stated countless times.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#148
post #18

Agreed with the points in that article, but IMHO the no 1 issue is that agents only see a fraction of the code repository. They don't know whether there is a helper function they could use, so they re-implement it. When contributing to UIs, they can't check the whole UI to identify common design patterns, so they re-invent it. The most important task for the human using the agent is to provide the right context. "Loo…

That's what claude.md etc are for. If you want it to follow your norms then you have to document them.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#149
post #108
post #18

Agreed with the points in that article, but IMHO the no 1 issue is that agents only see a fraction of the code repository. They don't know whether there is a helper function they could use, so they re-implement it. When contributing to UIs, they can't check the whole UI to identify common design patterns, so they re-invent it. The most important task for the human using the agent is to provide the right context. "Loo…

I wonder if a large context model could be employed here via tool call. One of the great things Gemini chat can do is ingest a whole GitHub repo. Perhaps "before implementing a new utility or helper function, ask the not-invented-here tool if it's been done already in the codebase" Of course, now I have to check if someone has done this already.

Sure, but just bcuz it went into context doesn't mean LLM "understand" it. Also, not all sections of context iz equal.

Re: Two things LLM coding agents are still bad at

#150

I don’t really understand why there’s so much hate for LLMs here, especially when it comes to using them for coding. In my experience, the people who regularly complain about these tools often seem more interested in proving how clever they are than actually solving real problems. They also tend to choose obscure programming languages where it’s nearly impossible to hire developers, or they spend hours arguing over h…

I regularly check in on using LLMs. But a key criteria for me is that an LLM needs to objectively make me more efficient, not subjectively . Often I find myself cursing at the LLM for not understanding what I mean - which is expensive in lost time / cost of tokens. It is easy to say: Then just don't use LLMs. But in reality, it is not too easy to break out of these loops of explaining, and it is extremely hard to ass…

> Often I find myself cursing at the LLM for not understanding what I mean...

Me too. But in all these cases, sooner or later, I realized I made a mistake not giving enough context and not building up the discussion carefully enough. And I was just rushing to the solution. In the agile world, one could say I gave the LLM not a well-defined story, but a one-liner. Who is to blame here?

I still remember training a junior hire who started off with:

“Sorry, I spent five days on this ticket. I thought it would only take two. Also, who’s going to do the QA?”

After 6 months or so, the same person was saying:

“I finished the project in three weeks. I estimated four. QA is done. Ready to go live.”

At that point, he was confident enough to own his work end-to-end, even shipping to production without someone else reviewing it. Interestingly, this colleague left two years ago, and I had to take over his codebase. It’s still running fine today, and I’ve spent maybe a single day maintaining it in the last two years.

Recently, I was talking with my manager about this. We agreed that building confidence and self-checking in a junior dev is very similar to how you need to work with LLMs.

Personally, whenever I generate code with an LLM, I check every line before committing. I still don’t trust it as much as the people I trained.

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