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ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

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Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#141

Post by actionfromafar »

15155 wrote: post #139
seadan83 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 14th amendment: "prohibits states from denying any person "life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"" The US constitution applies to all persons (people) inside of the USA regardless of citizenship. The amendment says PERSON, not CITIZEN. Therefore it should not matter at all how that person got here, they are due the same rights and process as __anyone__ else on American soil. That is the 14th amen…

Being deported isn't legally deprivation of "life, liberty, or property." Deportation is not a punishment and is entirely avoidable in 99% of cases: don't overstay or enter illegally.

How about children being ziptied in their homes and roughed up in the middle of the night?

Oops a citizen, don’t look so brown next time. Catch and release.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#142

Post by simcop2387 »

hypeatei wrote: post #129
godelski wrote: post #106

If you're running an Android phone open settings > Network & Internet > Internet > click on your network (e.g. Google Fi) > turn on 2G network protection (at the bottom). Alternatively: Security & privacy > Advanced Protection > Device protection. That does other stuff too though I'm not aware of a way to do this on iPhones... I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that many of these attacks work by performing 2G…

Is there a reason why Google and Apple wouldn't turn 2G downgrade off by default? Even the setting itself says "emergency calls over 2G are still allowed" so what is the reasoning behind leaving people exposed to this?

Likely due to areas that still have only 2g coverage. Still a lot of that in rural usa

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#143

Post by actionfromafar »

warkdarrior wrote: post #125
selectodude wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be arrested without probable cause. Being arrested in a dragnet immigration raid is just a crystal clear fourth amendment violation. Simple as that.

The Supreme Court was clear that if your skin is not white, this is probable cause. Also location is important (like being at a car wash) or speaking with an accent.

Is Yiddish accent still OK? Or is that scheduled for next term?

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#144

Post by analog31 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #31
nielsbot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree enforcing immigration laws in this way is good and/or important? If so, can I ask why? What is our end goal?

> can I ask why? Simply put, Americans gave Republicans a popular mandate to reduce illegal immigration. Much of this was economic: illegal immigrants dilute the labour force. Some, particularly among Latin Americans, rose from perceived injustice: it’s frustrating to go through the American immigration process only to see someone who skipped it live a similar life. Some, e.g. those focused on crime, were just racist…

It was an extremely weak mandate, and in normal times (e.g., assuming the concept of limited government), a weak mandate would be a mandate to act with restraint. Thus a "mandate" doesn't justify what's happening.

The Republicans abandoned the economic debate, and shifted focus to social issues. This is what caught the Democrats, including myself, off guard. Rather than stealing our jobs, the immigrants were accused of stealing our cats.

Framing it as an economic issue in hindsight seems like a polite way of "steelmanning" the voting base, but I'm not sure it's really justifiable.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#145

Post by actionfromafar »

apparent wrote: post #51
hedora wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different because ICE is a paramilitary group operating illegally inside the US. They don't get warrants, engage in racial profiling, disappeared 2/3rds of the people sent to some of their facilities, arrest citizens, assault peaceful protesters, etc. They're doing this over the objection of state and local authorities, and despite the fact that their actions have been repeatedly ruled illegal by the courts.

Are they arresting citizens whose behavior does not warrant arrest? I have read about several arrests, but the citizens were all interfering with lawful detentions that ICE was carrying out.

Yep, the children were interfering, sleeping in their beds.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#146

Post by hypeatei »

simcop2387 wrote: post #142
hypeatei wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason why Google and Apple wouldn't turn 2G downgrade off by default? Even the setting itself says "emergency calls over 2G are still allowed" so what is the reasoning behind leaving people exposed to this?

Likely due to areas that still have only 2g coverage. Still a lot of that in rural usa

What areas are those? From some quick research, the only carrier left that provides 2G coverage is T-Mobile but they're phasing that out this year.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#147

Post by dashundchen »

coredog64 wrote: post #76
fzeroracer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, why does the proportion matter? What happened to the presumption of innocence? Are you saying you, personally, would be OK with being rounded up and arrested as long as they got X illegal immigrants along the way?

Presumption of innocence applies to your trial, not to being apprehended. E.g. the state has to prove that you are guilty. If I'm a US citizen and I get swept up in an immigration raid, my lawyer calls my wife who brings my US passport and I'm released. A pain in the ass, but not a violation of my civil rights. Now if I get beat up by ICE, or they file a false claim for resisting, then sure, we've got grounds for a c…

ICE has been denying due process to the people they've kidnapped, including US citizens and children.

The whole point is people are being arrested and deported without probable cause, or based on their race, and deported without real due process.

There is no chance for these people to call their lawyer or wife, in fact ICE can't even tell you where some of these people are being detained.

Understand what is happening here.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#148

Post by zigzag312 »

hypeatei wrote: post #129
godelski wrote: post #106

If you're running an Android phone open settings > Network & Internet > Internet > click on your network (e.g. Google Fi) > turn on 2G network protection (at the bottom). Alternatively: Security & privacy > Advanced Protection > Device protection. That does other stuff too though I'm not aware of a way to do this on iPhones... I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that many of these attacks work by performing 2G…

Is there a reason why Google and Apple wouldn't turn 2G downgrade off by default? Even the setting itself says "emergency calls over 2G are still allowed" so what is the reasoning behind leaving people exposed to this?

My recent experience when roaming was that calls only worked on 2G even though 4G and 5G were avaliable. After a call, phone would sometimes stay stuck on 2G which meant internet was not working. I had to disable 2G to force the phone to switch to 5G. But if I forgot to enable 2G again, calls didn't work. I checked this with multiple people and they all had the same issue.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#149

Post by crooked-v »

k33n wrote: post #55
code_runner wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean we created an environment where people could come and find success and live their lives, and we perhaps weren’t as strict as we could’ve been in some situations… I don’t think that violently kidnapping people off the streets, without showing badges, in unmarked vehicles, masked, etc is a punishment that fits the crime. Missing a court date once multiple years ago, failing to navigate a complex process, an…

Obama was quite strict about it and deported tons of illegals. An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping. Being arrested by the feds for breaking the law has usually been a fairly unpleasant ordeal. Most Americans support the idea of deporting people who break our immigration laws, thusly cutting in line while millions of others patiently wait. This really doesn't have to be an emotional issue. Very few Americans support…

> An arrest isn't a violent kidnapping.

Okay, but dragging citizens out of their homes without a warrant (https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-raid-chicago-apartment) sure is.

Re: ICE bought vehicles equipped with fake cell towers to spy on phones

#150

Post by nickthegreek »

jeroenhd wrote: post #89
nxobject wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, the authors note that since this is installed on a phone, by the time CellGuard has detected a rogue base station, it’s too late anyway.

These spying devices often do permit network traffic to flow through, so if deployed widely these apps could be used to report on where large-scale messing with cellular communications is taking place. The only way to stop this technology is to turn off your phone completely (and opt out of any low-power "find my" networks built into Android and iOS, of course).

faraday pouch for added peace of mind.
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