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How Europe crushes innovation

economist.com

141–146 of 146 posts

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#141
This happens because of bad incentives. Since the welfare state is on the spot to pick up the tabs via unemployment benefits they would rather have industries keep paying for as a long as possible even if it means killing the goose that laid the golden eggs in the long run.

But all of this is largely amplified by globalisation. The welfare is not compatible with a world where companies can decide to set up shop somewhere else in the world to benefit from cheaper labour cost and lower regulations and still being able to sell their stuff in the market they somewhat destroyed.

It ends up strengthening the state because workers defer to it and ask it to foot the bill. This all ends up being a vicious cycle where over time the state because massively obese and nothing moves because almost everything is dependent on it to some extent.

Now to be fair it is absurd that companies are allowed to make so much profit and keep most of it, not redistributing to the workers who are actually contributing the most. But it all starts with bad regulations and incentives. Companies cannot be expected to compete with foreign imports that benefit from much lower costs in every dimension, that is just unfair competition.

Free markets are an illusion that only benefits those at the top and this is largely where the problem lies. If imports were to be taxed appropriately, there would be less reasons to delocalize and the job market would be much more competitive for the demand side, rendering the layoff problem mostly moot. Who cares about benefits/compensation if the next job is right there?

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but 50% tax rate is exploitation. Especially so how inefficient government spending is.

I live in Europe and pay 52% marginal. I considered moving to California and it turned out that I'd be paying about 50% marginal. So not sure it makes that much difference.

Even if this is completely correct, you would be paid more in California, right? Or at the very least have better purchasing power. That would come at the cost of security of course, but considering the state of EU governments it's no clear how long that security will last really...

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#143
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because labor protection costs money. If you get something from that, that's net boosting your economy, you have no problem. If not, you get social cohesion, at a price. Somebody is paying that price. If it's companies they are disincentivized to employ people in your market. If companies go somewhere else to employ people, jobs disappear from your market. If the jobs disappear, so does the money.

Labor protection costs money the same way monopolies cost money. You can have a strong cartel on the one side of the labor market or another, but there is a backed-in assumption that cartel of workers harms the economy more than a cartel of employers. This coming from a employers mouth is just negotiation tactics, nothing more. >If companies go somewhere else to employ people, jobs disappear from your market. Does th…

Yes that's the point. They import cheap labor ready to take jobs at lower prices than the native population because they don't have to live in the same social circles. It's almost the same as delocalization, it's a form of social dumping and all of this is possible because governments are both incompetent and addicted to the tax money. The pension deficit is the result of an overly socialized system where governments promised unrealistic benefits to a generation who fully profit from it and now let their children pay for it.

This is the result of relying too much on politics. If parents where to ask their children to pay for their expensive retirement benefits directly, most who tell them to fuck off, rightfully so. But since politicians have placed a level of indirection in between, it's not the responsibility of anyone yet everyone pays for it.

Socialist systems have a way of self-destructing after a while because nobody ends up being accountable for anything. Currently the politicians are good scapegoats but really the people who put those politicians in place bear as much responsibility.

If it had been about their own money, things wouldn't have turned out this way. Funnily enough since most people don't trust governments that much, they have double dipped, saving on top of retirement benefits and "investing" in real estate that they now rent at a high price to their children. This has created an obscenely well-off generation, that is now voting for immigration in order to keep their obscene retirement benefits, furthermore fucking their children.

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#144
post #66

As an European, I don't agree with the analysis: it's not labour law that has stifled innovation, but the post-WWII generation that chose to try stopping the train of history. Those born between the late 40s and 60s want NOTHING to do with innovation, people, from every social background and culture; the development model imposed after the war has killed Western Europe. From being the former greatest secular innovato…

Yes they are responsible for all the bullshit, and they keep voting for the same shit. It's maddening really, but how can it be different when they stand to gain so much via retirement benefits and other ways?

It's really the failure mode of a socialized system; you end up pegging generations against each other and the older participant have a lot of power to starve off the young, especially when their cohort is so numerically dominant.

Democracy is broken because everyone has the same right to vote, so an 80 years old bastard will be able to weigh in on the trajectory for the next 10-20 years in the same way as a young 20-30 something without ever having to suffer the consequences. It's just beyond stupid...

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#145
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Europe and pay 52% marginal. I considered moving to California and it turned out that I'd be paying about 50% marginal. So not sure it makes that much difference.

Even if this is completely correct, you would be paid more in California, right? Or at the very least have better purchasing power. That would come at the cost of security of course, but considering the state of EU governments it's no clear how long that security will last really...

> Even if this is completely correct, you would be paid more in California, right?

Correct, at the time it was about a 50% increase. However, given my food & shelter costs it would have ended up being more expensive for me to live in California.

The post I replied to was about high levels of taxation, which exist in the US also (the treatment of capital gains would have been much more favourable to me).

Re: How Europe crushes innovation

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because labor protection costs money Labor protection does not "cost money". It is a limit on the degree to which workers can be exploited.

Sorry but 50% tax rate is exploitation. Especially so how inefficient government spending is.

European labor regulation and European tax rates have nothing to do with each other. The former is about restrictions on how employers can treat employees. The latter is about funding a robust welfare state. For what it's worth, both are good.
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