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Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

express.co.uk

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Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#141

Post by kmeisthax »

hollerith wrote: post #84
CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They pull out and have no UK assets to seize. How do you expect the "pull out" to happen? They must have had a UK bank account or similar, whose transfers won't get approved as they're trying to escape from criminal prosecution. Or they'll work with the US to ensure responsible individuals are held responsible. It isn't exactly the first time someone/something commits crime in a country then try to escape, there is…

>they'll work with the US to ensure responsible individuals are held responsible. I heard here recently during a similar discussion (about 4chan and this same British watchdog agency) that the US does not allow extradition of its citizens for breaking non-US laws if the behavior is legal in the US.

[dead]

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#142

Post by jeroenhd »

thegrim33 wrote: post #89
jsheard wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like this law (which is unrelated to the Online Safety Act) is concerned with children being subjected to ad-tech tracking and similar indiscriminate data harvesting, so a site like this which doesn't feel the need to share your habits with 2,541 partners is probably out of scope. https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/the-children-s-code-what-i...

I like how it's always "oh just safeguard people's data", oh "just" don't do anything bad with people's data. Then you look up what the actual regulation says and it's hundreds of pages of pure legaleese (over 100 pages for GDPR, over 300 for Online Safety Act), that you'd need to hire a team of lawyers to parse and interpret to make sure you're not breaking any of the regulations therein.

> over 100 pages for GDPR

The first 33 pages are reasons why the law needs to exist. 23 pages are instructions for EU member countries and the EU itself.

The remaining legal text itself is spaced out more than any high school teacher would ever allow, and IMO it's also quite light on the legalese. Not enough that I'd feel confident to skip the legal department in my multinational, but it's far from the unreadable mess people make it out to be.

The OSA on the other hand... I'm glad I don't personally serve the UK.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#143

Post by IlikeKitties »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #136
IlikeKitties wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is neither comparable nor a good example. It's not comparable because the "crime" has been committed in the hosting country (where it's arguably not even a crime) and it's a bad example because there are many incidents of murderers fleeing to non-extradition countries.

I did say it was extreme on purpose to make the point clear, or so I thought. Looks like it isn't clear to you... Whatever you think of my example, it is exactly the same legal reasoning at play here. If you broke the law then withdrawing does not change that and accountability. > It's not comparable because the "crime" has been committed in the hosting country Obviously not, that's the whole point: They may (investi…

I genuinely think your example is bad and the legal reasoning is bad. A better comparison would be AM Radio broadcasting something obscene into the UK from let's say belgium.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#144

Post by nadermx »

The UK has been doing this sort of stuff for at least a decade. For example they have the PIPCU which under the guise of copyright threatens 10 years in prison for sites not even in their jurisdiction.

https://torrentfreak.com/uk-police-launch-campaign-to-shut-d...

And with that, they have at the least gotten registrars not located in their jurisdicrion to transfer domains

https://easydns.com/blog/2013/10/08/whatever-happened-to-due...

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#145

Post by KaiserPro »

thegrim33 wrote: post #89
jsheard wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like this law (which is unrelated to the Online Safety Act) is concerned with children being subjected to ad-tech tracking and similar indiscriminate data harvesting, so a site like this which doesn't feel the need to share your habits with 2,541 partners is probably out of scope. https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/the-children-s-code-what-i...

I like how it's always "oh just safeguard people's data", oh "just" don't do anything bad with people's data. Then you look up what the actual regulation says and it's hundreds of pages of pure legaleese (over 100 pages for GDPR, over 300 for Online Safety Act), that you'd need to hire a team of lawyers to parse and interpret to make sure you're not breaking any of the regulations therein.

> Then you look up what the actual regulation says and it's hundreds of pages of pure legaleese

sigh

There is a difference between guidance and regulation.

GDPR isn't that hard to comply with, I know because I helped take a very large Financial News company from 0 compliance to full compliance. the guidance is quite easy to understand: https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-re...

but, why are the regulations 100 pages of legalese? because rich companies, and unscrupulous shits pay money to to lawyers to avoid having to pay fines for breaking the law. You also have to carve out exceptions for things like charities, small organisations, have specific rules for things like health care, and define exceptions based on what are reasonable exceptions when detecting criminality

Say you take "the right to be forgotten", ie, I as someone who banks with Natwest want to close my account, withdraw my money, and get them to forget everything about me (ie stop sending me fucking emails you shits)

Thats simple right? the law says I have the right to have my details deleted.

But what if I committed fraud in that time? what if I am opening and closing, asking for deletion to get round money laundering laws?

And thats why the regulations for data protections are long.

Also GDPR regulations aren't that unreadable. You're most likely a programmer, legal texts are highly structured instructions (ie just like any high level programming language)

However, do not take this as endorsement of the unrelated law that is the online saftey act, which is badly drafted, gives too much power to an under resourced semi independent body, and is too loosely defined to be practically managed in any meaningful way by OFCOM.

I will however stick up for GDPR, because it stops the fucking nasty trade in in personal data that is so rife in the USA.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#146

Post by Winblows11 »

adventured wrote: post #133
noir_lord wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same - frankly google/alphabet should just HTTP 451 the UK (and I say that as a brit/someone in the UK). It'd be interesting to see how fast the policy would get reversed then. This was always a stupid policy and so protesting it by pulling services is one way to draw attention to that.

If big tech wants a reaction, pull all investment out of the UK. Microsoft + Google + Amazon + Nvidia + Meta + Apple = $630 billion in annual operating income. They'll react to a change in capital investment faster than anything else.

> pull all investment out of the UK.

Wow I didn't know big tech invested so much in the UK!

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#147

Post by hdgvhicv »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #122
elAhmo wrote: post #37

> The ICO also confirmed that companies could not avoid accountability by withdrawing their services in the UK. This is quite a slippery slope. If I host a website in one country, I do not necessarily care where people access my website from. It is not like I actively provide a service to them - they just use internet (decentralised network) to access it. What if I publish a newspaper here, someone takes it where the…

> am I accountable? If you travel to their jurisdiction, yes.

Many countries countries witch apply their laws outside there jurisdiction and borders

USA (Kim dotcom)

Russia (Skripals)

China (Teng Bio)

Israel (Mordechai Vanunu)

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#148

Post by Vespasian »

pixl97 wrote: post #83
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…but how enforceable would the fine be? They pull out and have no UK assets to seize.

Depends. If you're the US you call planes of out the sky that have representatives and owners of the companies on them. I'm assuming any leadership of Imgur would want to avoid going to the UK for the rest of eternity.

Or they simply decide to pay the fine for the short duration they were not in compliance.

I would do that (after appealing) and be done with it.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#149

Post by layer8 »

patrickmay wrote: post #140
layer8 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are sending data into the UK, hence you have to abide by their laws regarding said data.

As the owner of a U.S. based website, I am not sending data anywhere. Some people in the U.K. might request data and download it from my site. I'm not forcing it on them.

HTTP responses (website contents) are data that the web servers you are paying for are sending. People can’t download anything from your site without your servers sending the data. Nothing forces you to send that data when you receive an HTTP request. Indeed, geoblocking is a common way to prevent sending data to jurisdictions whose laws the sending of the data might be in violation of.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#150

Post by KaiserPro »

bArray wrote: post #23
roenxi wrote: post #9

I suppose this is a serious question - does this mean that in theory HN should ban UK users? Or is HN likely compliant with this law? It is hard to pierce through the Orwellian language in the article (does "safeguarding children’s personal information" mean retaining or deleting the data?).

In theory, HackerNews should be concerned. There is no prevention of children using the site, and potentially "harmful content" could be access either on or through the site. Being an aggregator doesn't seem to be a get-out.

Wrong law.

This is GDPR. So long as they conform to the 13 principles then HN will be fine. Its nothing to do with the online safety act.

For the OSA (which I think is very badly drafted, and poorly enforced by OFCOM) so long as there is decent moderation (which there is), a way to report posts (there is) and the site doesn't persistently host actual abuse, then you're mostly fine.

It doesn't help that OFCOM are unwilling to change the scope of guidance to match the size and type of community.

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