Live data from Hacker News

ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

141–150 of 656 posts

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#141
post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

Explicit digital privacy right in each country constitution?

Priva rights are already there in most countries constitutions, but maybe adding the digital part will make it harder to push back.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#143
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... expression, but you can also be arrested if you say something that could offend someone. ..." You probably mean hate speech. We have laws like that too in Canada. It is a good thing.

How on earth are hate speech laws a good thing? Or did I miss a /s?

For example, the US government is trying to label any posthumous criticism of Charlie Kirk "Hate Speech". You can see how dangerous this could be when the hate-mongers get to decide what is considered hate speech.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#144
post #135

Where is Apple in all of this? They're such proponents of privacy that they've actively started encrypting as much as possible for decades but now that the EU is about to break all that they're silent. They raised such a fuss when the FBI asked to decrypt that single iPhone years ago, but now that millions are on the line... nothing?

When Apple attempted to anticipate these laws and propose a system which tried to navigate a compromise, the “pro-privacy” faction was so politically dumb they spread FUD about it and actively made sure no reasonable compromise could ever be reached. Now the public with reap what these advocates have sowed, good and hard.

With regards to the FBI incident, Apple said at the beginning of their statement, “This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.”

The EU is proposing a law. People assure me their laws are democratic and reflect the will of the people. Who is Apple to reject the outcome of public discussion?

The FBI letter was written in a context where an agency was acting without the support of the public. That’s why the framing was all about misuse of the All Writs Act and lack of Congressional blessing for the requested power.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#145
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's a mix of many Danish politicians' own authoritarian tendencies/ambitions and corporate lobbying, though I have no proof of the latter when it comes to ChatControl specifically. Generally speaking , there is a lot of dark money in Danish politics, and the EU has repeatedly flagged Denmark as a country lacking in transparency with regards to corporate lobbying: https://www.altinget.dk/artikel/eu-kritik-a…

Interesting. I am not expert on politics of Denmark, so my question is: is this push universal across political parties or it’s a feature of a specific political block that rules for the past X years and consistently worked in this direction?

There was another thread on specifically our minister of justice, with comments that touch on the historical aspect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45248802

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#146
post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

I would argue that a surefire way of guaranteeing the right to privacy is to instead continuously push for absolute-transparency laws for politicians and governments. If they’re going to demand every private citizen’s records are always open for view, then the same should be said for governments - no security clearances, no redactions, no “National Security” excuse.

Is it patently unreasonable? Yes, but cloaked in the “combat corruption” excuse it can be just as effective in a highly-partisan society such as this - just like their “bUt WhAt AbOuT tHe ChIlDrEn” bullshit props up their demands for global surveillance.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#147
post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The only way I see to prevent the constant pushing is that every single time some council or committee presents something like this every single of one of their private communication gets leaked for everyone to peruse at their leisure from whatsapp to bank statements. They want to erode people's privacy? Let them walk their talk first and see how that goes.

Tempting though that is, I think that's the wrong way to resolve it: The people proposing it (law people) are a different culture than us (computer people), and likely have a funamental misunderstanding about the necessary consequences of what they're asking for.

Two cultures: https://benwheatley.github.io/blog/2024/05/25-12.04.31.html

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#148
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App stores that operate in the EU are subject to EU law, and can be forced to remove noncompliant apps.

Ahh, but they’ve already mandated side loading to piss off apple! Bit of an own-goal there.

Why do you think the EU hasn’t opposed Apple’s plan to notarize every app, even sideloaded ones? They like the censorship potential.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#149

Governments should be transparent and the people should be opaque. Any government that attempts to make things otherwise looses legitimacy.

> Governments should be transparent and the people should be opaque. I'm going to add this to my repertoire since it's a lot more concise than most of my rantings on the topic

[flagged]
Post reply on HN