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Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

netzpolitik.org

141–150 of 200 posts

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#141

Varoufakis had a very important take: that Europe needs to learn to survive post-EU. From the Euroskeptics to the anti-imperialists, everyone wants the EU dead. Sadly, I tend to agree with them more and more.

> Varoufakis had a very important take: that Europe needs to learn to survive post-EU.

Wasn't he the Greek Minister of Finance that was supposed to be a game theory genius, but was completely incapable of understanding why his proposals were politically impossible?

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#142

What I don't understand is, why don't the authorities think the actual bad guys will avoid the surveillance? It seems to me that organized crime will find their own solution, and the rest of us will occasionally have a snooping policeman checking our private messages. It's not unknown, even in Denmark, that people who are given access to private data will abuse it, eg snooping on ex girlfriends, that kind of thing. W…

Ask your local corporate IT guy how many people browse porn on work computers, even though they must know it's logged.

While true, at least in my understanding of the world there is a massive difference in people involved in CSAM and people watching porn. The latter one is probably like 80% of humans with access to internet, the first one is hopefully a tiny bit smaller. Also, people are probably very aware that the latter is widely allowed and done by mostly everyone, and the first one is highly illegal, highly enforced and morally completely wrong.

I would not mind browsing porn on my work PC. I wouldn't do it, but I would not have a very bad feeling while or after it, because so be it. I don't think my employer can fire me for that.

I would mind about doing CSAM activities though.

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#143

What I don't understand is, why don't the authorities think the actual bad guys will avoid the surveillance? It seems to me that organized crime will find their own solution, and the rest of us will occasionally have a snooping policeman checking our private messages. It's not unknown, even in Denmark, that people who are given access to private data will abuse it, eg snooping on ex girlfriends, that kind of thing. W…

> What I don't understand is, why don't the authorities think the actual bad guys will avoid the surveillance?

Not only the bad guys, I will jump into any software that allow me to bypass this crap.

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#145
post #140

Time to dismantle the EU. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. I moved from a country that used to have strong privacy laws(Sweden) to another that still has them. Although Switzerland is far from perfect, it is a stable democracy with protections for its citizens. The problem is when you build these gigantic political organisations, like the EU or USA, there is nowhere to go when the political elite dec…

I think this is naive thinking.

Do that and you will be ass raped by stronger powers in record time... if we don't start a war in eu amongst ourselves.

The eu was established as an economic union trying to prevent war in Europe and it has been very successful in that. Going the other way would probably cause havoc. Look at Hungary and Slovakia even with war on our doorstep.

I am of the opinion that the EU needs to federalize. It needs to look as one country from the outside, while having independent countries on the inside. The goal here is not to be overwhelmed by the economic and military might of china. Build up resiliency and self sufficiency and keep democracy alive, which seems to be on the decline everywhere.

The question is how not to end up in a totalitarian regime, which chat control is about. It doesn't and it never will be about the children.

The EU is necessary.

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#146

What I don't understand is, why don't the authorities think the actual bad guys will avoid the surveillance? It seems to me that organized crime will find their own solution, and the rest of us will occasionally have a snooping policeman checking our private messages. It's not unknown, even in Denmark, that people who are given access to private data will abuse it, eg snooping on ex girlfriends, that kind of thing. W…

It's not about bad guys. It's about wrongthink. It's about surveilling the political opposition. They could not care less about children. Kids are just a political weapon they use to create a pretext for global warrantless mass surveillance.

Indeed. They just again further defunded both education and youth projects. So what you say is perfectly accurate: they could not care less about children.

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#147

>Now Paris “on the whole” agrees with the draft. France welcomes both mandatory chat control and client-side scanning. A few months ago, a broad security law was passed by the National Assembly in France. Initially, this law contained provisions, including the scanning of private messages, which were removed from the main text by a large majority of lawmakers, as it was deemed too intrusive. The few officials (includ…

> Crooks. There's a bunch of people organizing against those crooks on the OG Stop Killing Games discord. Just type "stopkillinggames" into Discord's invite box. One interesting note: The group has even identified a suspected Russian spy network tied to the Russian telco MTS. MTS paid a close to $1B fine for unsavoury business in Uzbekistan [1] and is known to operate GFW and similar tech [2] in Russia, Ukraine, Arme…

> As a parallel thread mentions, anything related to Chat Control and other Internet control things immediately becomes a target for state actors trying to undermine democracy. [5] In my opinion, it is also often initiated and pushed for by them.

War is peace, isn't it ? /s I am not against chat control if they start making public the chats of politicians. I know, it's not gonna happen. National security.

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#149
post #141

Varoufakis had a very important take: that Europe needs to learn to survive post-EU. From the Euroskeptics to the anti-imperialists, everyone wants the EU dead. Sadly, I tend to agree with them more and more.

> Varoufakis had a very important take: that Europe needs to learn to survive post-EU. Wasn't he the Greek Minister of Finance that was supposed to be a game theory genius, but was completely incapable of understanding why his proposals were politically impossible?

Why politically impossible? You can argue economically impossible, but the referendum overwhelmingly voted to reject the bailout package

Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard would it be for law enforcement today, before chat control, to get chat logs out of discord? Discord isn't exactly known for it's privacy features, still I imagine there's some challenge? If the effort is low, and they're not doing it today, they're not going to do it after chat control either.

> How hard would it be for law enforcement today, before chat control, to get chat logs out of discord? Not sure, speculating: somewhat hard. Discord must comply with government subpoenas, so if you're the FBI it's easy. If you're law enforcement, I imagine they tell you to go kick rocks if you don't have a warrant. Law enforcement is pretty bad and mostly lazy. They can't be bothered to pull people over going 20 ove…

> If you're not in the US, then I imagine the effort is insurmountable.

Actually, in the EU, the police (and ...) have direct access to surveillance channels. Meaning, they have a website interface that they click around on, without anyone from the provider ever helping them at all. This allows for extracting call logs, listening in, finding location, lists of IPs they connected with, what DNS records they looked up (yes, that part is defeated by actually configuring DNS in your phone, but who does that?), ... I've seen these interfaces because I've designed their network installation and a bit of initial support. They are installed on cell towers. Oh and "support" meant getting calls from all sorts of local police stations who found out this was possible and essentially directing them to the person who could give them access.

Of course, the spying equipment itself does not log who access it and what they access. Clearly, the police do not need to be told what the value is of hiding what you're doing even if it's legal.

The only issue holding back mass-surveillance in the EU is "who pays for it?". Essentially a number of hours are tracked? Why so little? Then the local SSD is full. They want 6 months, minimum, but the state is unwilling to pay a single cent for that, and forcing providers to pay for it, that the executive (ie. ministers) haven't been willing to do.

Yes, they're supposed to get a "research judge" permission, which is more-or-less a subpoena, except much more informal, but do they actually do this? It's an honor system.

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