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Always Invite Anna

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Re: Always Invite Anna

#141

Post by carlosjobim »

bshacklett wrote: post #130
matheusmoreira wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Life is not a game where people build up points with you and you start to be kind to them only if they maintain themselves above a threshold. Be careful. It is trivial for others to take advantage of such selfless kindness. Ingratitude is common, as is sociopathy. Altruists often discover that the world does not reciprocate.

And yet, at the end of the day, I always sleep better knowing that I put the effort in to be a good person, even if it didn’t work out the way I’d hoped. I get the cynicism; it’s easy to feel like the world is just full of uncaring people sometimes. But, does adding one more help?

You aren't a good person for being subservient. You are a bad person, because you are enabling bad people.

Evil is in most cases a Yin/Yang system of abuser and willing victim. Both are dependent on each other for their common goal of creating evil in this world.

The abuser from primitive motives: "I have to do it to them, because if I'm not an abuser, somebody will make me a victim."

The willing victim because he thinks it's an easy path to be a good person: "I don't have to engage my heart and soul, just take abuse and each "point" of abuse turns into good boy points for me."

There is nothing to be admired about victims and the victim cult is a mistake. They deserve empathy and help, they don't deserve admiration.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#142

Post by Majestic121 »

majkinetor wrote: post #125
63stack wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everybody, who thinks this is OK, should think again - what if Anna genuinely didn't like parties, you at parties, music at parties or whatever else. Re-invating in that case is disrespectful, intrusive and even rude as all interactions need to be feedback controlled Anna has a mouth she can use to speak up, instead of relying on others ability to read (possibly unexpressed) social cues. Also what world do you live…

> Also what world do you live in where an invitation to somewhere from your friend group can be seen as disrespectful, intrusive, or rude? Talk about disconnect from reality. You are funny and aggressive at the same time. Good job. Don't twist my words. Its not invitation that is the problem, but spam of invitations from the group that doesn't take your opinion into account. Its harresement.

An invitation once a week is not harassment, unless some important details are omitted.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#143

Post by 1718627440 »

nicbou wrote: post #115
globular-toast wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help…

One thing I had to learn is that clear is kind and unclear is unkind. If your unstated expectations are unmet, it's on you. I used to be like the "she" in your story, and I realised this behaviour is manipulative and rarely gets me what I want. > Some people will take "no" as a rejection. People say "no" because they mean "no", and people accept "no" as meaning "no". This is how adults communicate. I don't think you…

But is it "No, I can't come." or "No, I don't like these things."

Re: Always Invite Anna

#144

Post by 1718627440 »

Ancapistani wrote: post #101
n4bz0r wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has backfired a couple of times Mind telling more about that?

In short, there are some things that are risky to tell your boss. The biggest one is if you’re unhappy. A good boss will try to work with you to resolve the issue, and help you transition to another role or company if that isn’t possible. A bad one will undermine you, violate your confidences by reporting the concern up the chain, or even outright fire you. I’ve had the all of the above happen, though it’s been a whi…

That's exactly the distinction between formal and informal in many languages.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#145

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

watwut wrote: post #122
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the composition of “technical” people has changed, over the years. When I was getting my start, it was almost exclusively nerdy white males. That is no longer the case. Tech now looks a lot more like any other community. Misanthropy is often a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s different from social awkwardness or fear. For myself, I’m “on the spectrum,” so high-stimulus environments are exhausting. That d…

> I think that the composition of “technical” people has changed, over the years. I am old enough. It is not about changed composition. It simply never was true that everyone would be a "nerd" or bullied. Or even majority of us. Or that majority of the people in tech would ever be neurotypical. There might be more neuroatypical people then in teaching, but not enough to make it reasonable default assumption. Some peo…

Well, I started in 1983, so things have, indeed, changed, since then. In the field I was in (defense electronics, then, financial hosting, etc.), it was definitely "nerdy white males." Probably for the first eight years or so of my career.

We also had a lot of ties, back then. Sucked. I did learn to tie a Windsor, though, so I guess it's not a total loss.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#146

Post by walterbell »

bonoboTP wrote: post #135
nenenejej wrote: post #126

Even better, ask Anna what she wants to do. Maybe bowling on Sunday afternoon is more her thing.

Yep, if the group is constantly doing stuff she doesn't like, maybe she needs a better fitting group. I mean it may feel nice to be "included" in the invites to all the loud parties that the group is doing all the time, but if you hate loud parties, it is even better to be included in invites by a group that does stuff you like better. These invites that are always declined only provide an illusion of inclusion.

> needs a better fitting group

From the article:

  After that first semester, the friend group disbanded and we all went our separate ways.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#147

Post by the_snooze »

walterbell wrote: post #140
nicbou wrote: post #100

If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive…

> If people keep declining invitations.. indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited in scope to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972 We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.

I think the fact that so many people (myself included) interpreted it as Anna declining everything demonstrates that the article is poorly written. Even a quick signpost mid-piece like "parties obviously weren't Anna's scene, but she was a regular at our dinner table" would have made things much clearer.

There's a big difference between inviting a regular to something they may or may not like, and inviting someone who's absent for everything.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#148

Post by the_snooze »

1718627440 wrote: post #143
nicbou wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I had to learn is that clear is kind and unclear is unkind. If your unstated expectations are unmet, it's on you. I used to be like the "she" in your story, and I realised this behaviour is manipulative and rarely gets me what I want. > Some people will take "no" as a rejection. People say "no" because they mean "no", and people accept "no" as meaning "no". This is how adults communicate. I don't think you…

But is it "No, I can't come." or "No, I don't like these things."

If you're the one declining the invite, the onus is on you to clarify which it is, not for the initiator to guess your intentions. In my life, I usually decline with "That doesn't work for me, but how about ${ALTERNATIVE_PLAN}?" It signals that the invitation is welcome, but doesn't work for practical reasons, so I'll return the kindness by proposing something else and leaving the other person in a clear and actionable position.

As the parent comment said, clarity is kindness. If you're leaving people guessing, then you're being very unkind.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#149

Post by nicbou »

bonoboTP wrote: post #133
nicbou wrote: post #100

If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive…

It also depends on whether she does regularly say yes to some low-energy things (chill coffee afternoon) and only no to high-energy things (loud parties with many strangers). And the ratio between those. If we go to some events together every week or more often, but she doesn't like going to the club, which we typically do monthly, it can make sense to still ask her if she wants to come to the club even if I know she…

Totally. It's fair to keep people's preferences in mind. I have friends to party and friends to do sports. Someone who never makes time is not really a friend, or at least not someone I'd keep inviting.

Re: Always Invite Anna

#150

Post by 1718627440 »

the_snooze wrote: post #148
1718627440 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is it "No, I can't come." or "No, I don't like these things."

If you're the one declining the invite, the onus is on you to clarify which it is, not for the initiator to guess your intentions. In my life, I usually decline with "That doesn't work for me, but how about ${ALTERNATIVE_PLAN}?" It signals that the invitation is welcome, but doesn't work for practical reasons, so I'll return the kindness by proposing something else and leaving the other person in a clear and actionab…

Or maybe you intentionally didn't wanted the other to guess, but accept that you don't want to clarify.
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