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Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

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Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#141

Post by wlesieutre »

root_axis wrote: post #102
rob74 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have to admit that your friend has a point. Humans are bad at reacting quickly and correctly to unexpected situations, and some debris large enough to damage your car showing up from out of nowhere after several hours of boring driving along a largely straight highway with little traffic is definitely one of these situations. But a self-driving system worth its salt should always be alert, scanning the road a…

I'm not convinced. The debris is clearly visible to the humans a long way off and the adjacent lane is wide open. Avoiding road debris is extremely common even in more congested and treacherous driving conditions. Certainly it's possible that someone texting on their phone or something might miss it, but under normal circumstances it could have been easily avoided.

Even if there wasn't space to swerve, a human would've hit the brakes and hit it much slower

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#142

Post by piva00 »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #108
SillyUsername wrote: post #60

A lot of apologists say that "a human would have hit that". That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard. Comparing to a human is not a valid excuse...

> That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard I don't think that is the case. We will judge FSD whether you make more or less accidents than humans, not necessarily in the same situations. The computer is allowed to make mistakes that a human wouldn't, if in reverse the computer makes a lot less mistakes in situations where humans would. Given that >90% of accidents a…

> The computer is allowed to make mistakes that a human wouldn't, if in reverse the computer makes a lot less mistakes in situations where humans would.

This subverts all of the accumulated experience of other users on the road about what a car will do, everyone is used to potential issues caused by humans, on top of that other road users will have to learn the quirks of FSD to keep an eye for abnormalities in behaviour?

That's just unrealistic, not only people will have to deal with what other drivers can throw at them (e.g.: veering off lane due to inattention) but also be careful around Teslas which can phantom brake out of nowhere, not avoid debris (shooting it on unpredictable paths), etc.

I don't think we should accept new failure modes on the road for FSD, requiring everyone else to learn them to be on alert, it's just a lot more cognitive load...

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#143

Post by panick21_ »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #117

One of my biggest criticisms of Elon is that he rarely takes accountability for his words and nobody ever holds him accountable by asking directly. This isn't a high bar to clear, but some people continuously excuse him as being "overly-eager" in his predictions. If that was the case, he could still provide reasonable updates when a predicted date is missed along with an explanation, even if it's just: "Hey, it turns…

Interestingly with SpaceX he is much more willing to change plans. With SpaceX he and SpaceX seem to be searching for the right solution.

For self driving, he simply decided X is right and talked about exponentials and no matter how many time it fails, there is no reflection what so ever.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#144

Post by amelius »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #126
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #117

One of my biggest criticisms of Elon is that he rarely takes accountability for his words and nobody ever holds him accountable by asking directly. This isn't a high bar to clear, but some people continuously excuse him as being "overly-eager" in his predictions. If that was the case, he could still provide reasonable updates when a predicted date is missed along with an explanation, even if it's just: "Hey, it turns…

In America, you fail the second you apologize or take accountability. Ignoring criticism and deflecting all the time gets you further, as it is part of the game. Unfortunately, this is just an accepted social science-y thing at this point. It is a very much cultural thing of the past couple of decades.

Isn't the case in engineering cultures, like Boeing before they changed into a business culture.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#145

Post by AlotOfReading »

thefourthchime wrote: post #80
tedggh wrote: post #53

I got my first Tesla last year and my first trip with FSD was just after the launch of V13, so I could not compare it to earlier versions. But I was shocked by how good it was. I completed a 800 miles trip with a handful of interventions, most or all of them likely unnecessary. Even with rain the system worked well. I don’t understand how the system was not able to see this obstacle and slow down or change lanes. Did…

When they first released V13, the highway stack was still the old C++ code. It wasn't until another four or five months that they switched it to a neural network. It doesn't seem like they've put much focus on it since then.

Tesla FSD still uses C++. What you're referring to is control policy code that was deleted. FSD also doesn't have a separate "highway stack" and hasn't since v12.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#146

Post by fabian2k »

testing22321 wrote: post #106
petesergeant wrote: post #3

> Tesla’s EV business is in decline and the stock price depends entirely on the self-driving and robot promises I don't think that's right; I think the stock price entirely depends on people seeing it a vehicle to invest in Musk. If Musk died tomorrow, but nothing else changed at Tesla, the stock price would crater.

The world’s best selling vehicle means nothing? Extremely safe vehicles mean nothing? I get that it’s way over hyped, but they have real results that can’t be denied

That would justify a valuation in the same range as other car companies. Not the valuation Tesla has right now.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#147

Post by kayodelycaon »

helge9210 wrote: post #73

I would try to pass it between the wheels and would crash the same. At least for me there was nothing indicating there is not enough clearance.

I’d disagree. :/

It’s a huge chuck metal well over a foot long in the middle of a lane. The center of a lane is usually higher than sides and an uneven patch of road can cause a slight bounce before it, further reducing clearance. I’d worry about my RAV4 (8 inches) clearing it safely.

At first, I thought it was possibly a tire tread, which tend to curl up.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#148

Post by JimmaDaRustla »

agildehaus wrote: post #30

A friend of mine who loves Tesla watched this video and said "many humans would have hit that". I feel we'll be hearing a lot of that excuse.

Did you friend make any mention that the passenger saw it hundreds of feet away and even leaned in as they headed directly towards it? The driver also recognized it and grabbed the wheel as if to say "brace for impact!".

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#150

Post by sureglymop »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #117

One of my biggest criticisms of Elon is that he rarely takes accountability for his words and nobody ever holds him accountable by asking directly. This isn't a high bar to clear, but some people continuously excuse him as being "overly-eager" in his predictions. If that was the case, he could still provide reasonable updates when a predicted date is missed along with an explanation, even if it's just: "Hey, it turns…

> when you realize that your predictions are going to be wrong, you should have the basic decency to update people

Not to get too political, but the last I've heard of Elon Musk is that he was speaking to/mobilizing right wing extremists at a big protest in London. I am also pretty sure he has been trying to do similar things in other European nations (for whatever reason).

It seems to me that it is a bit late to plead for "basic decency" at this moment.

But at the same time let me ask you, what has he got to lose? What financial or reputational risk is he taking by not taking any accountability?

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