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Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

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Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can. For publicly-held large tech, the equation isn't about affordability but about maximizing shareholder dividends. Moving jobs overseas has long been the preferred means to that end.

Sure, but they have always been able to do that. It's always been cheaper to hire employees overseas than to employe H-1Bs here. Making H-1Bs more expensive increases the delta and probably makes it more attractive for some jobs. But clearly there is some value in employing people in the US or they would have already moved the jobs.

> Sure, but they have always been able to do that.

I think the newness (some period before 2020) of tech in general tended to intimidate those legacy shareholder groups who got in early. And I suspect that early shareholding was often dominated by employees, etc (not sure tho).

I think those interests plus the proximity to adjacent industries created strong interest in US Gov's (now-former) incentives to create to bring many of the best minds here.

We've dialed back all the above. We've put truly hostile interests in power that are weaponizing Gov assets & millions of supporters - against every manifestation of immigration. Our actual outcomes are flavored with rising Gov violence and populist animosity toward (mostly non-white) immigrants and those associated with them.

Considering what and where we are, I absolutely see this high-paying, historical class of jobs being shipped overseas.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#142
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extra $100k might "tip the scale"? If you are the employer, are you going to shell out 50% more for no good reason? Amazon has over 10k H1B workers. Think about how much money it means.

It's exactly like the tariff war with china. India refused to put sanctions on russia (who helped india in its wars with pakistan, who received help from USA), so now trump is saying we don't want your people in here. The outcome is probably going to be similar to the tariff war as well. They'll start out with totally absurd bullshit and then come down to something more reasonable. Maybe $10-20k per worker per year.…

Yep, it's definitely designed to target indians. Navratri starts on monday lol.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#143
post #43

I assume immigration fees are solely the purview of the executive, is that correct ? I also would think that if this fee is applied to some countries and not others, it would pass muster since its the same as with tariffs - they don't need to be universal (or uniform). I am not clear on the mechanics of this though. Is the fee is annual, one-time or renewal; but i suppose this will be cleared up once the EO is releas…

Law requires these fees to be ~essentially the cost of processing. So that EO is almost certainly illegal, and will be litigated.

I'm absolutely not a lawyer, so may be mistaken, but the fees for I-129 / DS-160 are not explicitly mentioned anywhere. Instead the fee seems to be an entry fee, which is orthogonal to the actual visa (meaning ; you can have a visa but not be granted entry, or maybe be granted entry under a different program but then with no lawful work permit).

Personal Experience: H1B/Work PERM/Personal PERM/EADs/Naturalization

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#144
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the employer will happily get rid of the US headcount and rehire the same guy in their home country or UK/Canada etc while paying a third of the salary. Zero employer is going to pay $100k.

At big tech companies they are already paying $200k or more than they'd pay the same worker in their home country for existing H-1Bs. An extra $100k might tip the scale for some but not for all. The most likely outcome is that body shops can no longer afford H-1Bs, but big tech still can.

Big tech can get waiver from DHS.

Cheap labor exists because there is a demand for it. Body shops don't pay those wages - companies who hire those bodies from body shops do. So, body shops are going to raise prices accordingly.

"You need someone to manage your Oracle/SAP ERP systems and do a horrible job of it? And that person needs to be here locally? That will be an extra $60k from our last contract because we cannot bring in cheap bodies now." (assuming they eat $40k of the costs)

In the meantime rural medical centers will be devasted because many teams are made of H1B doctors.

H1B certainly requires more government oversight. But doing their jobs or applying critical thinking skills isn't a criteria for this administration.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#145
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, whether the 100k fee will curb misuse remains to be seen. But giving people essentially 24h to react feels like utter bullshit causing totally unnecessary and avoidable chaos to LEGAL (and vetted from a background check standpoint) immigrants.

Sure everything Trump does is insane, but all I've been hearing is how "H-1Bs are good actually".

Where do you hear this? All I'm seeing is people praising this on X, people split here on HN, and people being downright racist towards Indians on Reddit h1b forums

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#146
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data is publicly available. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/foreign-labor/performance

This proves the first part of your claim, not the second (which is wild speculation and no data exists)

The US has successfully brain-drained the rest of the world over the last 20 years.

https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-...

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#147
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not within the same job in the same location they aren't. The actual data doesn't support this belief. 100% offer market wages and 78% offer higher than market wages.

1. I'd need to see the exact data you're citing. 2. It's a common tactic to employ people on H-1Bs in a lower paying job title while having the perform the work of a higher paying title. 3. You'd need to adjust for average number of hours worked.

None of what you said is true.

https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-...

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#148
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If executive orders get banned, should presidential pardons as well? This instrument can also be used for leverage.

Both have necessary and legitimate uses, which is why they exist. Any institutional power can be used corruptly. The defense against that is not to try to predecide and constrain every action of the executive. It is for the people, directly or through their representatives, to recognize the corruption and remove that executive through election or impeachment.

Genuine question: what are the legitimate uses of a presidential pardon? It always seemed strange to me, I don’t understand it.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the US is more popular among Indians than among Mexicans, Brazilians, and Colombians. What is the point? And why these countries when I've already said the same about Indians vs. Chinese?

The point is that it strongly suggests the system is being abused by India. Even excluding developed countries where people might lack incentive to move, India doesn’t come close to having 70% of “the talent.” Latin America alone probably has as many college graduates as India, accounting for higher college attendance rates. But Latin America accounts for a small share of H1bs while India accounts for 70%.

That argument is not sound. English is an official language of India, of course Indians are much more likely to seek work in the UK and the US than people from Latin America. You have failed to present any evidence concerning the skill levels of Indian H1B holders, and, moreover, since India has the largest population of all countries, those 130M college graduates must have gone through some very tough selection.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#150
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to show your math?

From your post >while paying a third of the salary If they're paying $300k, they are paying $200k extra to employ that person in the US.

That 0.3% seems quite a bit off.
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