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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#141

Post by fy20 »

weq wrote: post #134
zygentoma wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such an American fear. Wash it (as you should anyways) and you'll be fine ...

Just wash some forever checmicals over the pesticides, that'll do the job. Jokes aside, i raw dog with a quick wash and im yet to have caught covid so it cant be that bad.

I always find it interesting when I visit Italy. The supermarkets there do sell some kind of dissenfectent for produce, and everyone is really strict about using gloves (this was even before COVID). My country has none of that...

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#142

Post by vmurthy »

The 20 year old me would have been so excited about something like this. The 39-year old (ok 40 next month) is more reserved. It is not that I don't think this will be adapted but more like : What needs to happen (government, civic groups whatever economic forces) for companies to adapt this? It's going to be a slow burn for sure if this needs to work at a global scale but the impetus should begin with incentives, sadly.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#143

Post by taminka »

qwerty_clicks wrote: post #139

I’ve worked for two refining companies. They aren’t about to rebuild their global infrastructure to make this happen…it doesn’t matter what possible, it’s what corporations can buy out politicians and the rich building a society that benefits them.

when you're inside the machine, it's hard to see how it could work differently

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#144

Post by user3939382 »

vmurthy wrote: post #142

The 20 year old me would have been so excited about something like this. The 39-year old (ok 40 next month) is more reserved. It is not that I don't think this will be adapted but more like : What needs to happen (government, civic groups whatever economic forces) for companies to adapt this? It's going to be a slow burn for sure if this needs to work at a global scale but the impetus should begin with incentives, sa…

I couldn’t just leave an upvote because rather than read and agree, I immediately had the identical reaction and then saw your post. I may as well still be reading the order section in the back of my comic books or the gadgets in Popular Science.

I’m grateful the work is being done because it’s essential but no longer have faith in these things being solved in 5, 10, or 20 years.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#145

Post by sdeframond »

fy20 wrote: post #140
latexr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t you bring plastic bags from home? They are very much reusable, you don’t have to throw them out. They are also quite easy to fold into small shapes and keep on you, or your car, or whatever. I have plastic bags which have endured for literal years. I also decided early on that if I forget to bring a bag, I either do without or have to go back to get one. You start remembering really fast after a few times o…

I have a cupboard full of bags at home I can reuse. It's right next to my door. Really easy to get to. 75% of the time I forget to take a bag to my car. As well as all the single use bags (paper and plastic) I bought, I also have jute bags that I got years ago and are still holding up. I like them better as they are bigger and stronger. Even if I managed to get a bag, the other 75% of the time I forget to take it int…

Would it make sense to keep those bags in your car? Or in some of your pockets even ?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#146

Post by gamblor956 »

privatelypublic wrote: post #122
positron26 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine this survives napkin scrutiny. A ten mile drive isn't using nearly as much hydrocarbon mass as 10k plastic bags. While most of the plastic hopefully winds up in a landfill, most of the gasoline is water and carbon dioxide by the end. It's tires versus bags. While tires shed, the mass lost in 10min is definitely quite a bit lower than 10k bags or the fraction that escapes the waste pipeline.

30mpg, 10 miles, means two pounds of gasoline, 910grams, knock off or add 100g for ethanol per your preference, a google says about 5grams per bag, so nearly 200 bags. Nowhere close to 10k, but nontrivial. And, this gets reduced and sometimes outright negated if you reuse the bag. Doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate if plastic shopping bags are the beat choice though. I don't think replacing them with store bought dog…

10 miles in a 30pmg vehicle uses only 1/3 of a pound of gasoline, or roughly 150g. So, nowhere close to 10k or even 1k...

150g is only equal to about 1-5 of the reusable bags in CA grocery stores, depending on the store.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#147

Post by positron26 »

privatelypublic wrote: post #122
positron26 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine this survives napkin scrutiny. A ten mile drive isn't using nearly as much hydrocarbon mass as 10k plastic bags. While most of the plastic hopefully winds up in a landfill, most of the gasoline is water and carbon dioxide by the end. It's tires versus bags. While tires shed, the mass lost in 10min is definitely quite a bit lower than 10k bags or the fraction that escapes the waste pipeline.

30mpg, 10 miles, means two pounds of gasoline, 910grams, knock off or add 100g for ethanol per your preference, a google says about 5grams per bag, so nearly 200 bags. Nowhere close to 10k, but nontrivial. And, this gets reduced and sometimes outright negated if you reuse the bag. Doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate if plastic shopping bags are the beat choice though. I don't think replacing them with store bought dog…

I can breathe CO2. I don't want plastic in my brain. These two things are not the same.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#148

Post by alexchamberlain »

The UK banned single use plastic bags at major supermarkets. We all moaned about it for a few minutes, forgot our reusable bags a couple of times and then got on with it. Even the small plastic bags you put fruit or pastries in are now gone in a few super markets - initially, they replaced them with transparent paper-based windowed bags, but then I think people realised you really don't need to see inside the bag, and brown paper bags are back.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#149

Post by samrus »

qwerty_clicks wrote: post #139

I’ve worked for two refining companies. They aren’t about to rebuild their global infrastructure to make this happen…it doesn’t matter what possible, it’s what corporations can buy out politicians and the rich building a society that benefits them.

You could have said that about motor cars. That the horse industry wasnt going to give up that easy. Its all about incentives

Having said that, deep sustainability initiatives like this require some forward thinking, and i dont see the public buying into preserving their own future when the reaction to climate protesters is eye rolling and the west and east keep throwing the hot potato of blame to each other rather than trying ti solve the problem.

Ideally, the government would introduce regulations to incentivize this for entities for whome the value proposition would, in the short term, be negative. But i dont know if they'll get their act together to do that. So you might be right

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#150

Post by samrus »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #148

The UK banned single use plastic bags at major supermarkets. We all moaned about it for a few minutes, forgot our reusable bags a couple of times and then got on with it. Even the small plastic bags you put fruit or pastries in are now gone in a few super markets - initially, they replaced them with transparent paper-based windowed bags, but then I think people realised you really don't need to see inside the bag, an…

These days, you never hear about reduce, reuse, recycle, and how its supposed to be in that priority order. When i was a kid thats what we were taught. Now its just recycle, recycle, recycle

My conspiracy theory is corporate propaganda changed it because reduce and reuse decreases demand, while recycle potentially only lowers production cost

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