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Chat Control Must Be Stopped

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Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#141

Post by enlyth »

giveita wrote: post #122
mnls wrote: post #95

Don't worry people. If you are not a European let me tell you how it goes. The 'Unofficial' boss of European Union is Germany. If Germany will vote against it, more countries will back off and it won't pass. If Germany wants ChatControl, it's over. It will pass and all other undecided countries will support it. Thankfully, Germany (so far) is against it.

Would this have been UK/Germany back in the day?

Probably better for you guys that UK is out now, our government would have been salivating at the thought of spying on every citizen without repercussions

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#142

Post by asdff »

nine_k wrote: post #138
tormeh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean enshrine a right to messaging privacy in a constitution? That's going to be difficult.

The US constitution already has a provision against unreasonable search properly enshrined, and well tested in courts. Things like KOSA can be rejected as clearly violating it. The EU does not seem to have such simple and ironclad norm.

Do you imagine the current SCOTUS stepping up to bat for the common person in the face of three letter agencies and federal autocracy?

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#143

Post by strbean »

DontBreakAlex wrote: post #128
giveita wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any case law for first claim?

Apparently that is Anti-social Behaviour Crime and Policing Act 2014. Article regarding the claim: https://adfinternational.org/en-gb/news/guilty-army-vet-conv... > In its decision, the court reasoned that his prayer amounted to “disapproval of abortion” because at one point his head was seen slightly bowed and his hands were clasped. I'm all for women's rights, but that's not how to do it

> The safe zone, introduced in October 2022, bans activity in favour or against abortion services, including protests, harassment and vigils.

> During the case, brought by BCP Council, the court heard Smith-Connor had emailed the council the day before to inform it about his silent vigil, as he had done on previous occasions.

> On the day, he was asked to leave the area by a community officer who spoke to him for an hour and 40 minutes - but he refused.

- https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo

So he told the council he was going to have a silent vigil against abortion, and then it had to take place within the buffer area to protect women from anti-abortion activism.

He was totally free to walk a few yards away and do whatever he wanted, but he refused.

Sounds like he wanted to stir the pot to preserve the right to menace women seeking medical care.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#144

Post by dlivingston »

jihadjihad wrote: post #89
zmmmmm wrote: post #57

Of all the arguments presented I'm surprised to see absent the one that seems most obvious to me: encryption is just math, there's no way to actually ban it. If criminals think their conversations are going to be detected they aren't going to just say "oh well let's not crime now". They are going to simply spin up their own e2e encrypted channels. The software is nearly trivial, the technical barriers are very low -…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

> Any image file or an executable program can be regarded as simply a very large binary number.

This had never occurred to me before but is totally obvious in hindsight. An interesting corollary is that, given an infinite natural number space, all programs that have ever and will ever exist can be found as a single point on this natural number plane. The larger the number, the more complex the program. What else is emergent from this property?

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#145

Post by sterlind »

thatxliner wrote: post #113

Regarding all the chat control posts, I've not seen any comments regarding the potential use for homomorphic encryption to abide by this law: if chat control is only used for the detection of CSAM (which is another issue in itself; Apple, for instance, already solved this with NeuraHash), then could "allowing the government to snoop" be letting them have the homomorphically encrypted ciphertext? Disclaimer that I act…

so you encrypt your image, send it to the government, the government runs its CSAM detector on the encrypted image and gets... an encrypted result.

then what? you decrypt the answer and send it back to them? promise that you totally didn't change the answer?

FHE is the wrong tool for the job. you'd want verifiable computation (e.g. ni-ZKP) instead. both are too complex and faaar too computationally expensive for actual use.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#146

Post by Bud »

nine_k wrote: post #138
tormeh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean enshrine a right to messaging privacy in a constitution? That's going to be difficult.

The US constitution already has a provision against unreasonable search properly enshrined, and well tested in courts. Things like KOSA can be rejected as clearly violating it. The EU does not seem to have such simple and ironclad norm.

[dead]

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#147

Post by rhizome »

Humorist2290 wrote: post #10

> Chat Control would make it mandatory for all service providers (text messaging, email, social media, cloud storage, hosting services, etc.) to scan all communications and all files (including end-to-end encrypted ones), in order to supposedly detect whatever the government deems "abusive material." I wonder why there has been such silence on this, with the exception of a handful of well written blog posts. The scop…

>I wonder why there has been such silence on this

Some combination of cowardice, conflict of interest, and fear of ICE.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#148

Post by sterlind »

jongjong wrote: post #79

The only long term solution for this is for people to use more different platforms. Communities should be seeking out new platforms, building their own chat platforms with their own protocols. There is no such thing as a single 'decentralized protocol' - There are incompatible protocols and then there are centralized protocols. When it comes to censorship resistance, incompatibility is a feature. Lack of adoption (un…

those platforms will be banned. this will doom Signal, the fediverse, and countless smaller platforms. anything that isn't compatible will become illegal.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#149

Post by asdff »

petertodd wrote: post #120
chairmansteve wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody who thinks they have online privacy is deluded. Regardless of Chat Control.

Nonsense. If online privacy was that impossible Ukraine couldn't successfully organize sabotage operations in Russia. They do it all the time.

On the open internet? The drone strike in January that made headlines was not quite that simple. The drones were directed using dead reckoning. The drivers of the trucks were not informed what was happening with their cargo. Even the American government was kept in the dark.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#150

Post by asdff »

thw_9a83c wrote: post #94

As both an EU citizen and a computer programmer, I applaud this article, and I generally agree with its sentiment. But let's be realistic. Chat control is going to happen sooner or later. This is a Hacker News forum. The audience here is very knowledgeable about computer science and fully aware of how technologically impractical the idea of fighting CSAM in this way is. But the general public is somewhere else entire…

Of course the elephant in the room is all of this content and bad behavior predates the internet entirely. The internet is used because it is more convenient than mailing polaroids to a dead drop address. Not because it enables anything that wasn't happening previously. Makes it a little easier perhaps, but even that is arguable given the oversight today.
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