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New executive order puts all grants under political control

arstechnica.com

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Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#141

Post by mschuster91 »

noncoml wrote: post #26
Zaheer wrote: post #2

Related paulg tweet: https://x.com/paulg/status/1951996478555357530 "The Trump administration has suspended the funding of Terence Tao and the Institute for Pure and Applied Mathematics at UCLA."

The replies to his tweet are a cesspool. Why do people still use Twitter?

> The replies to his tweet are a cesspool.

Maybe it's just Twitter's algorithm that only serves me the decent replies - but these at least have a point, antisemitism is running utterly rampant in academia these days. In no relation to Qatari funding, one might assume...

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#142

Post by random3 »

nikanj wrote: post #89
CalRobert wrote: post #62

If European leadership has even half a brain cell this could be the catalyst for enormous growth in European science. But they’d need to act fast.

EU will not act on this unless the bill also includes provisions to support hobby horse manufacturing in eastern romania

You seem to be frustrated about Romania (which has an east but not a formal eastern region designation as in Eastern Europe - are you conflating the two?) - but can you elaborate on your frustration?

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#143

Post by ethbr1 »

threatofrain wrote: post #133
jjav wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In software terms, there has been a vulnerability in the constitution all along, it just had not been exploited until now. The three branches of government are supposed to be checks and balances against each other. But turns out two of the three don't have any actual power to enforce their mandates. This has worked as long as the three branches grudgingly respected each others role. But now that the executive branch…

The GOP has majority in the Supreme Court and in Congress. It's not like there's a conflict of power. There's no disagreement going on.

Indeed. Congress has tons of hard checks on executive power. (The Supreme Court, less so if it comes to enforcement and all norms are ignored)

That a Republican Congress isn't checking a Republican President isn't evidence of a lack of checks and balances.

And points to why the President is pushing so hard for Texas to gerrymander additional Republican seats into the House...

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#144

Post by ethbr1 »

russellbeattie wrote: post #55
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This year is definitely the beginning of the end for American scientific leadership. The damage being done is incalculable. The best and brightest simply aren't going to want to come to the U.S. for an uncertain future where they'll be harassed at the airport every trip and then defunded or deported at any time for "political" reasons (a.k.a. racism, bigotry, religion, ignorance and anti-intellectualism). Amazingly,…

> We have 3 years, 5 months and 12 days left

The midterms are in 2026. A swapped House (and/or Senate, but less likely) would drastically shift power.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#145

Post by redserk »

FredPret wrote: post #122
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

To play devil's advocate: - science funding is controlled by the state (and thus politics) in many leading countries, especially China. Doesn't seem to hold them back - the US pays people vastly more than other countries, and will continue to have the ability to fund expensive research more than others. Maybe it will regain the political will to do so in coming years You're right that uncertainty is deadly to investm…

In a completely isolated bubble I’d be inclined to agree that scientific research might not do so badly, but the current set of politics completely rejects generally-accepted scientific norms.

After all, why bother doing research when the guy ultimately responsible for choosing your funding will take a sharpie to any data you collect if it looks bad?

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#146

Post by ocschwar »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #78
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This ends science in the United States. Probably not. Grants were always under political control, right? This is just shifting political control from one part of a government agency to another part of the government agency.

Until now, once you got a grant, you could count on it.

Now? One of your grad students says something a little too on the nose on Bsky, and your lab gets shut down.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#147

Post by SauciestGNU »

ethbr1 wrote: post #144
russellbeattie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This year is definitely the beginning of the end for American scientific leadership. The damage being done is incalculable. The best and brightest simply aren't going to want to come to the U.S. for an uncertain future where they'll be harassed at the airport every trip and then defunded or deported at any time for "political" reasons (a.k.a. racism, bigotry, religion, ignorance and anti-intellectualism). Amazingly,…

> We have 3 years, 5 months and 12 days left The midterms are in 2026. A swapped House (and/or Senate, but less likely) would drastically shift power.

Hence the push for a mid-decade census (likely illegal) and revised fascist-friendly electoral maps. Can't risk popular sovereignty overruling Nazi priorities.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#148

Post by SauciestGNU »

watwut wrote: post #129
msgodel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it's real or just poor communication a lot of the country felt like the scientific institutions had been weaponized against them. Maybe the constituents of those institutions even believed either making themselves an enemy of the public or creating PR indicating they were was moral but the practical reality of public institutions is that they must have the trust of the public or they will come to an end. Hope…

> Whether it's real or just poor communication Nah, there was nothing "poor communication" about it. It was very well done bad faith communication from bad actors. It was intentional lies. This was not a fault of communication of these institutions. They can not match the lies machine from well founded and motivated political groups. And that is about it.

Don't forget the resentment the religious hold toward science over things like evolution and the big bang that are inconsistent with their superstitions. There's been a concerted effort by evangelical Christianity to undermine the place of science in our society, probably because when religion loses its explanatory power over the wondrous things we see in the world people turn toward the alternatives, like evidence-based explanations.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#149

Post by thisisit »

msgodel wrote: post #123
russellbeattie wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This year is definitely the beginning of the end for American scientific leadership. The damage being done is incalculable. The best and brightest simply aren't going to want to come to the U.S. for an uncertain future where they'll be harassed at the airport every trip and then defunded or deported at any time for "political" reasons (a.k.a. racism, bigotry, religion, ignorance and anti-intellectualism). Amazingly,…

Whether it's real or just poor communication a lot of the country felt like the scientific institutions had been weaponized against them. Maybe the constituents of those institutions even believed either making themselves an enemy of the public or creating PR indicating they were was moral but the practical reality of public institutions is that they must have the trust of the public or they will come to an end. Hope…

Really? Is that why Project Warp Speed was both an achievement for Trump and at the same time vaccines were produced too fast and hence unreliable? That is at the same institutions were a friend, when it fit the narrative and enemy, when it didn't fit the narrative. People who say - "Don't trust the government, they make terrible decisions" are now saying "Trust the government". What a turn around.

Hopefully people who have voted for this and defending this remember this as the beginning of the end of American exceptionalism. It's certainly not happening any time soon. Maybe decades later but these things will be remembered in the same way as Mccarthyism.

Re: New executive order puts all grants under political control

#150

Post by tremon »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #78
ocschwar wrote: post #31

This ends science in the United States. You can't really enroll graduate students for a 5 year PHD project if their funding can be pulled at a moment's notice like this.

This ends science in the United States. Probably not. Grants were always under political control, right? This is just shifting political control from one part of a government agency to another part of the government agency.

Grants were always under political control, right?

Sure. In the same vein, you have always been at war with Eurasia.

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