Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

cointelegraph.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 230 posts

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#141

Post by gotoeleven »

namibj wrote: post #127
gotoeleven wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "mass" deportations in germany are you talking about? I can only find any news references to two flights, totaling ~100 people in the past year. Surely even a normal level of deportations, let alone "mass" deportations, would generate more deportations than this? And you're really not sure this is less draconian than nazis?

Normal deportations get booked on commercial flights, not herded onto charters.

https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/64755/germany-over-6000...

The vast majority of these deportations are just shuffling people around the EU in what seems like a game of hot potato over who is supposed to be responsible for a given migrant. Deportations that actually get people out of the EU seem to be extremely rare afaict.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#142

Post by [deleted] »

Faark wrote: post #120
potato3732842 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're acting like those 1.8m reports are actually legit. I'd wager it's 99% baby pictures, gore, normal porn and dank memes, in that order and that the other 1% was parties a) already on the radar of law enforcement b) hacked accounts being utilized for that purpose by parties unknown. If it were of real value they'd be touting arrests, not reports.

You forgot c) real but won't be looked at by understaffed police agencies

[deleted]

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#143

Post by WhyNotHugo »

vaylian wrote: post #93
johndhi wrote: post #51

Can someone explain how the same group of countries can simultaneously issue book-long regulations about how everyone needs to respect privacy to the nth degree, and run around the world trying to force others to do the same, yet also propose these kinds of things?

Many politicians don't have a clue what the technical consequences will be. They just see that the law is meant to protect children and then they don't ask for clarification on the technical details.

I don't think anyone realistically believes that this helps save any children. That's just an excuse used to make it sound like there's some good intention behind it.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#144

Post by WhyNotHugo »

sunshine-o wrote: post #103

> Instead of weakening encryption, the plan seeks to implement client-side scanning, meaning software embedded in users’ devices that inspects content before it is encrypted. That sounds worst to me. That would make illegal any non official Signal client for example. Or worst does that mean it will be outside of the messaging app in the OS itself? In the end, we need to take a step back and look at the situation: - W…

> Instead of weakening encryption, the plan seeks to implement client-side scanning, meaning software embedded in users’ devices that inspects content before it is encrypted.

And there's really no way to enforce this unless you mandate locked-down devices with attestation.

Then again, that's likely the long-term plan here.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#146

Post by izacus »

wqaatwt wrote: post #134
efitz wrote: post #44

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…

Simple. The EU is hardly a democracy. It’s run almost entirely by appointed bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur. The European parliament is there but it’s very weak relative to actual national parliaments and most people unfortunately don’t really care that much about politics on the EU level..

Please stop spreding this bullshit.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#147

Post by 9rx »

10298373 wrote: post #30
9rx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the anecdotal evidence around the regular adult porn industry is that users go in the opposite direction. The data is abundantly clear that people, especially young people, are having less sex, all while porn consumption has increased substantially. Likewise, causality hasn't been proven, but it is likely the most compelling answer. Why it is it different? At what rate have child abuses declined?

> Likewise, causality hasn't been proven, but it is likely the most compelling answer. That's a massive stretch—there are many things that have been declining along with the rate at which people have been having sex. Porn is in no way "the most compelling answer". It certainly could be a factor, sure, but by no means the only one.

> Porn is in no way "the most compelling answer".

What are you seeing people finding more compelling? There was that whole "the chemicals are turning frogs gay and now you too" or whatever it was, but that wasn't compelling. Tell that to the average Joe and he will simply wonder what kind of drugs you are on. Tell the average Joe that "increased porn consumption is diminishing partnered sexual activity" and you'll at least get, "Huh. Maybe."

> It certainly could be a factor, sure, but by no means the only one.

Case in point. But it seems you're confusing a compelling explanation with a scientific explanation. Whether or not porn is actually a factor is entirely immaterial. It might have absolutely nothing to do with it. It can still be compelling even if that is the case.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#148

Post by piaste »

zackmorris wrote: post #129
sackfield wrote: post #32

This pops up every few years, and I bet once it gets in it never goes away. It seems asymmetric that one side only has to win once to win permanently while the other side has to win constantly. Is there any mechanism to stop this in the EU and make this kind of legislation explicitly barred?

This is the same problem in the US. Legislation (that protects the environment, minorities, the ability to compete in the market, etc) that took years, even decades to get signed into law, is getting repealed today by the current administration via executive order or simple majority vote. Because sabotage is much easier than building something. Unfortunately the only answer that I know of is eternal vigilance, which…

I'm sure you just linked the first google result you found, and it's not like the internet wasn't full of crappy 'quote' websites in the halcyon days of 2021, but it's incredibly depressing to click that link and get drowned in paragraphs of worthless AI blathering.

After a quick search - and ignoring Google's helpful clanker who tries to point you to the _wrong_ Orwell text - it's not hard to find a clean source:

https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/RoadToW...

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#149

Post by AlecSchueler »

sackfield wrote: post #32

This pops up every few years, and I bet once it gets in it never goes away. It seems asymmetric that one side only has to win once to win permanently while the other side has to win constantly. Is there any mechanism to stop this in the EU and make this kind of legislation explicitly barred?

No, it couldn't be done without amending the treaties. Currently each Commission has to govern with the same powers as their predecessors so there's no mechanism for them to bind the power of those who come after them.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#150

Post by wqaatwt »

izacus wrote: post #146
wqaatwt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple. The EU is hardly a democracy. It’s run almost entirely by appointed bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur. The European parliament is there but it’s very weak relative to actual national parliaments and most people unfortunately don’t really care that much about politics on the EU level..

Please stop spreding this bullshit.

In what way exactly is it bullshit?

For better or for worse the core institution or decision making processes were never designed to be democratic in any meaningful way.

Post reply on HN