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The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

theguardian.com

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Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#141

Post by gishglish »

quickthrowman wrote: post #140
gishglish wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities. I suspect the electrician they send over isn’t just pocketing $100/h on wages.

> Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities. The union is charging that because *that is what’s in the contract that was signed by the union and the local union contractors after negotiation. Electricians get paid a lot where I live because it’s a wealthy grow…

> Did you read the post I wrote initially? I give the breakdown of how much of the money I pay to the union goes to the worker on his paycheck (55%) with the rest going to insurance, taxes, union dues, pension, etc (fringe benefits, which are 45%)

I misread that intitially.

At the end of the day, anytime this topic comes up, there’s an oddly large discrepancy between the anecdotes and the BLS data.

Even half of that $100 puts these electricians in the 90th quartile for hourly wages in that MSA. So they’re either sending there most expensive guys or I’m misreading misinterpreting the BLS data.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#142

Post by quickthrowman »

gishglish wrote: post #141
quickthrowman wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities. The union is charging that because *that is what’s in the contract that was signed by the union and the local union contractors after negotiation. Electricians get paid a lot where I live because it’s a wealthy grow…

> Did you read the post I wrote initially? I give the breakdown of how much of the money I pay to the union goes to the worker on his paycheck (55%) with the rest going to insurance, taxes, union dues, pension, etc (fringe benefits, which are 45%) I misread that intitially. At the end of the day, anytime this topic comes up, there’s an oddly large discrepancy between the anecdotes and the BLS data. Even half of that…

Union electricians make up the bulk of commercial electricians, with the rest being non-union. Non-union electricians dominate the residential market, and that’s who brings the average wage down, along with the year 1 to year 5 apprentices.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#143

Post by kjkjadksj »

nradov wrote: post #95
kjkjadksj wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We make them take classes like organic chemistry where they have to memorize the reaction of various metal catalysts. Calculus. Physics. These are all two semester classes that are considered hard in undergrad. And yet the nurse will never ever use what they learn in these classes outside them. They aren’t the ones synthesizing the drugs.

That's misinformation. Most BSN programs don't include those course requirements. https://www.sjsu.edu/nursing/programs/bsn.php

Some jobs that are basically nurse will go through standard biology major sequence (usually if there isn’t a more focus prehealth major offered). Physicians assistant is an example. PA school happens after undergrad. A lot of people going to med school end ul taking standard biology majors. Arguably they should have been able to drop all those undergrad prerequisites and spend more time getting clinical hours vs toiling on ochem. As a crude input filter, medical schools often expect you to volunteer for these hours shadowing workers in the medical system even though you have to find the time yourself on top of a full major load that doesn’t account for these extracurricular expectations.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#144

Post by hulitu »

thmsths wrote: post #3
huijzer wrote: post #2

Yes can confirm this is real. I know both German and Dutch nurses who say that the workload is incredibly high. One older nurse also said the pressure today is much higher than years ago.

I am not surprised. Healthcare costs have been rising faster than inflation for several years. It's a difficult sell to increase budgets, so we have to resort to these "invisible" cost cutting measures to try and stay afloat.

> so we have to resort to these "invisible" cost cutting measures to try and stay afloat.

Yeah, this is the narative. In reality we only need increased profits.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#145

Post by jemmyw »

cratermoon wrote: post #60

Every time I've been in the hospital - unfortunately too many times -it's the nurses I see and who do the work, with the occasional lab tech visiting to do a test or draw blood. The doctors show up once a day, doing their rounds. Don't get me wrong, I've had some wonderful doctors, hospital patient visits are only part of the work doctors do. I remember the good nurses, the patient nurses who understood why I'd be gr…

Yes but there are more nurses than doctors (2.5:1 oecd average, and it's probably higher in hospitals). The doctors are also working long hours and are under pressure. I've been in hospital more times than I'd like too. I remember one time a doctor in a non-english speaking country helped me in ER and then took me downstairs and bought me a sandwich and talked to me for a little while after a panic attack.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#146

Post by hulitu »

markx2 wrote: post #42
thmsths wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not surprised. Healthcare costs have been rising faster than inflation for several years. It's a difficult sell to increase budgets, so we have to resort to these "invisible" cost cutting measures to try and stay afloat.

It's not just costs. It is patient (and relatives) expectations. It is knowing that any perceived issue could result in litigation. It is that management may well have never 'worked the floor' so have no insight in to what happens. There may well just not be the time to do all the tasks that someone else had decided needed to be done.

> It's not just costs.

It is profits. When someone is sick, or dying, we really need to make a huge profit, before it is too late. Porsches, Lamborghinis, Malibu houses cost money. You can't just sit there and let others do it, instead of you.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#147

Post by hulitu »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #18
ajmurmann wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will continue to happen as long as automation in health care is slower than in other sectors. It's due to Baumol's Cost Disease: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The same is true for other sectors that struggle with automation like education.

So after every industry is fully automated and everyone has lost all their jobs, do we all just hold hands and walk into the sea together or...?

We ? No. I walk in the sea, you go back to work. /s

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#148

Post by tperdos »

Situation probably will get much worse since Europe decided to enter an endless arms race.... Dark days for Europe, very sad progression. Regarding healthcare workers, at my country, Greece, double-shifts without intermediate break has become the new normal in the last 10-15 years. I think Europe has the most awful leadership ever.
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