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The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

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Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#141

Post by isodev »

EagnaIonat wrote: post #57
an_ko wrote: post #17

Why does this stupid idea have to be killed so many times? Being watched constantly means living in fear, but seeing it almost become legally mandated practice over and over again is itself a form of living in fear. I'm so tired.

It was more misunderstood than stupid. Ironically when Apple introduced their solution it was actually better than what we have now. It was interesting to watch people lose their minds because they didn't understand how the current or proposed system worked. Current system everything can be decrypted on the cloud and is scanned for CSAM by all ISPs/service providers. Apple wanted the device to scan for CSAM and if it…

> Realistically if countries want to read encrypted messages, they can already do so. Some do too. The fact that the EU is debating it is a good thing.

I agree that the discussion is evolving the bill every time and there are always good amounts of feedback and comments.

It’s a bit annoying when tech websites don’t always update themselves with the latest changes, just labelling it ChatControl doesn’t mean it’s the same policy that was discussed 5 years ago. It makes for good click bait titles, but the technical nuances are missing.

For example, one would be interested to read a comparison between the “privacy” of a tool matching photos against a database of signatures vs. say Apple’s performative privacy in the Photos app or the iCloud + chatGPT/Apple Intelligence mix.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#142

Post by andrepd »

thyristan wrote: post #120
saubeidl wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU commission is appointed by elected governments, with one level of indirection. It is thus as democratically legitimized as any ministerial role in any government, or as the US presidency. Please do not spread disinformation.

The commission is appointed in back-room deals by "elected" governments which are in turn often only indirectly appointed by parliaments. From your nickname I do infer you are from Germany, where ministers are not elected and the chancellor is not elected by the voters. Instead the chancellor is elected by the Bundestag, which was elected by the voters, but only after the usual back-room deals of forming a coalition.…

Everything you say here is correct. Democracy is not a binary where if you have an election no matter how indirect then it's a "democracy™".

The EU is governed by backroom deals and is extremely opaque. Adding to everything you said: there is no accountability, there is little presence of EU matters in newspapers, EU leaders hardly even attempt to communicate with their people (practically only von der Leyen or António Costa make public speeches).

Just compare: you surely know the names of all or almost all ministers of your country. Do you know the names of even 2 out of the 27 commissioners? Scrutiny of their doings and the laws that are proposed appear in news regularly. Does such scrutiny exist of EU institutions?

It's not a democracy.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#143

Post by RealCodingOtaku »

westpfelia wrote: post #14

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

People said the same thing about the UKs Online Safety Act when it was proposed. If these articles do not warn us to take action and spread more awareness on what's going on, we would just be stepping closer to the dystopian future faster.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#144

Post by hollowonepl »

emptysongglass wrote: post #102
westpfelia wrote: post #14

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

It's not clickbait. Many member states do support this. Much of the disagreement is on just how rights-violating the scanning should be. The situation here in Denmark is dire: nobody in the Danish media reports on it, so everybody just shrugs. I've gone out of my way to educate my coworkers and most are unaware many members of our parliament want this. The number of parties that support it outnumber those who don't.…

The way article is formulated little bit as clickbait.

Title tries to scare while content says it's just a topic being reintroduced. If anybody knows EU laws and is aware that to introduce such change all states need to agree... then I just wish DK good luck until it's anyhow confirmed at _all_ not many states do support this.

I come from different EU state and I first time hear this is big topic, seems then it's not such a big topic outside Denmark maybe?

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#145

Post by andrepd »

saubeidl wrote: post #122
thyristan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commission is appointed in back-room deals by "elected" governments which are in turn often only indirectly appointed by parliaments. From your nickname I do infer you are from Germany, where ministers are not elected and the chancellor is not elected by the voters. Instead the chancellor is elected by the Bundestag, which was elected by the voters, but only after the usual back-room deals of forming a coalition.…

Is the US democratic by any sensible nature? Their president, too, is appointed by electors. Is there any democratic power by your standards? You are moving the goal posts so far I don't think anything fits your narrow definition.

That's just ridiculous. The US president is directly elected by the people, modulo the weirdness of state-level FPTP. Flawed as the electoral college is, there's no comparison whatsoever.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#146

Post by Pedro_Ribeiro »

bornfreddy wrote: post #128
john_the_writer wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent, I can tell you it's insanely easy to manage allowing kids online. Don't.. or 100% supervised. Done

This works - until they grow up. Will you filter the world for them when they are adults too? Your role, as a parent, is to prepare them for independent life, life without you. How will you do that if you never give them the reins?

Clearly by installing a wrongthink iron dome around the world!

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#147

Post by geertj »

saubeidl wrote: post #122
thyristan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commission is appointed in back-room deals by "elected" governments which are in turn often only indirectly appointed by parliaments. From your nickname I do infer you are from Germany, where ministers are not elected and the chancellor is not elected by the voters. Instead the chancellor is elected by the Bundestag, which was elected by the voters, but only after the usual back-room deals of forming a coalition.…

Is the US democratic by any sensible nature? Their president, too, is appointed by electors. Is there any democratic power by your standards? You are moving the goal posts so far I don't think anything fits your narrow definition.

> Their president, too, is appointed by electors.

While there have been a tiny numbers of faithless electors in the past, they have never influenced the outcome of a presidential election. Furthermore, about 80% of electors are from states that have laws that require their electors to vote for the candidate who wins the state's popular vote.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#148

Post by andrepd »

ekianjo wrote: post #31
westpfelia wrote: post #14

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

it only needs to pass once. if you keep trying it will.

Exactly. The European """Parliament""" does not have the power to propose new laws, so if it passes once, it cannot repeal it of its own initiative. So much for democracy.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#149

Post by brabel »

emptysongglass wrote: post #102
westpfelia wrote: post #14

"the EU wants to scan your messages" implies its every member state and not one freak from Denmark putting this forward where it will die. The EU has always been 90 days from passing mass surveliance for the last decade. Until member states start actually backing this these articles are nothing but click bait.

It's not clickbait. Many member states do support this. Much of the disagreement is on just how rights-violating the scanning should be. The situation here in Denmark is dire: nobody in the Danish media reports on it, so everybody just shrugs. I've gone out of my way to educate my coworkers and most are unaware many members of our parliament want this. The number of parties that support it outnumber those who don't.…

> Everyone looking to Denmark as a model state should beware what happens when you have a population with such high trust in its government: the roots of autocracy are allowed to grow unfettered.

Denmark is currently one of the nicest places you can find in the world. If that’s what happens when you trust the government then sign me up!

PS. I know the situation can quickly deteriorate if you’re not constantly monitoring what the government does and agree with OP on that. Just thought it was incredibly naive to try to make the point that this can lead to an autocracy while showing one of the most well functioning democracies in the world. The USA seems like a much better example, and even then compared to most countries in the world, as you can see by the amount of people trying to move there, it’s still a pretty damn nice place to go.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#150

Post by tremon »

inglor_cz wrote: post #55
squigz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to some info on what countries voted for or against previous attempts at this?

This guy has been doing a lot of lifting on the fight against Chat Control: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/ Take a look across his page and his social network media, he had nice maps for each round, so hopefully they are still there.

Why not link directly to his Chat Control dossier? https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
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