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Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

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Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#141

Post by msla »

astrange wrote: post #140
Telemakhos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great first step toward making criticism of the government scary. Porn, hate speech, and other "legal but private/embarrassing" speech are the sharp end of the spear. When it's okay to restrict those, it becomes more easier to restrict political opposition.

Nobody in the UK cares about "criticism of the government". That's a paranoid concept that only makes sense in a presidential system like the US. In Westminster systems you can kick out the government all you want and often do. The point of the constitutional monarchy is to separate the people you "shouldn't criticize" from the people who actually have any power. The reason they're doing this is that British people h…

https://www.vice.com/en/article/queen-dies-protesters-arrest...

> A man who was arrested by police in England for asking who elected King Charles III says he’s worried that his arrest could have a “chilling effect” on freedom of expression in the country.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#142

Post by astrange »

vidarh wrote: post #84
cronin101 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit that relocated to Norway a decade ago, trust me when I say you cannot fathom the lack of organization around identity that the UK (somewhat intentionally) has. (It’s constantly used for political Godwin’s-law fear-mongering) There is no centralized ID number, the closest is your social security number but this is basically only outbound for PAYE tax and haphazardly correlated to your pension payments in lat…

It's even worse now: A lot of places now accept PDF's of things like bank statements, since so many people don't get paper copies any more. It's not that it was hard to fake before if you wanted to, but when you can just get a real PDF as a starting point, and edit it slightly it's just theatre.

It doesn't have to be perfect. This is how financial regulation works in the US too, but it does work. The idea is that every individual step is weak, but it's a crime to bypass any of it. So the deterrence is you can catch things probabilistically and most people don't want to commit a whole bunch of crimes at once because they all have individual punishments.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#143

Post by skybrian »

MBCook wrote: post #123
skybrian wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple and Google wallet apps have ways to add your id, but the web apis aren’t widely available yet. Here’s Google’s doc: https://developers.google.com/wallet/identity/verify/accepti... Looks like it will support zero knowledge proofs?

A ton of states also don’t support it. I, for example, couldn’t add my driver’s license even if I wanted to.

Yeah, it's more about the future. Maybe in a year or three, you'll be able to write a website that does age verification using a standard web API, without processing any identity documents yourself, and expect it to work.

And sometimes kids will put fake ID's on their phones, or borrow a phone, but that's not your problem.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#144

Post by astrange »

Retr0id wrote: post #113
subscribed wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware attestation would be enough to clamp down on almost anything, ensuring the hardware and the os guarantee the outcome is not manipulated. Not the broken anti-competitive Google play store integrity (which is passing for any handset not patched for the last 8 years but with Google buttplug in it, effectively nullifying assurances from the attestation), but a proper hw attestation.

You just described DRM

DRM mostly explicitly does /not/ function that way.

If you jailbreak an iPhone you can still use store apps and watch movies. You don't think that's just because Apple forgot about it, right? Or because the movie studios are merciful? They definitely aren't. It's because they think it'd be illegal to lock you out over it.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#145

Post by astrange »

crooked-v wrote: post #14
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark does it by sending you to a government-owned website, which then uses two factor authentication and responds back verifying one’s identity. I don’t understand why other countries can’t do the same.

The US in particular doesn't have a national identity system in the first place because the Republican party has opposed the concept for a long timr for various reasons both ideological ("mark of the beast" claims are less of a thing these days but have been made in the past) and political (having a patchwork of systems makes voter suppression and stochastic disenfranchisement of undesireables easier). Without that,…

The funny thing is voter suppression doesn't actually help either party consistently over time. Right now the marginal voter is Republican, and so are all the "low-information" voters (this is the polite term politics people use for, you know.)

So voter ID laws would make them lose every election. But of course, that's not permanent either.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#146

Post by astrange »

msla wrote: post #141
astrange wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in the UK cares about "criticism of the government". That's a paranoid concept that only makes sense in a presidential system like the US. In Westminster systems you can kick out the government all you want and often do. The point of the constitutional monarchy is to separate the people you "shouldn't criticize" from the people who actually have any power. The reason they're doing this is that British people h…

https://www.vice.com/en/article/queen-dies-protesters-arrest... > A man who was arrested by police in England for asking who elected King Charles III says he’s worried that his arrest could have a “chilling effect” on freedom of expression in the country.

That's my point. King Charles isn't the government. Nobody thinks he is either.

Keir Starmer is "the government" if you want someone. And he's at 27% popularity.

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#147

Post by FergusArgyll »

hhh wrote: post #69
Retr0id wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On-device models are excellent for privacy, but they are fundamentally broken from a security perspective. Preventing people from spoofing the results would involve locking them out of their own devices, via DRM.

I understand, and think that there’s an acceptance criteria for some level of fraud tbh.

Paging @patio11

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#148

Post by [deleted] »

MBCook wrote: post #124
dom96 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really deserves a digital solution. Let me get a government account and generate tokens that websites can ingest to confirm I'm an adult (and other optional details about me). Having to use passports or poor solutions like face scanning isn't good enough. I guess the reason they don't do this is because they fear the cost, anything governments price up these days seems to be in the billion range. So the politici…

The solution is easy. A government national ID. The US refuses to do this, so we get a mess. Every state has different drivers license, Social Security numbers aren’t secure at this point, most people don’t have passports. But if there was a true national ID, the government could provide APIs to verify those. Then these kind of things would be easy for the apps/sites. All of that obviously ignores the problems in pri…

[deleted]

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#149

Post by zahlman »

dom96 wrote: post #58
jhgg wrote: post #4

> government passes law that requires companies to age verify users > said government provides no way to actually verify a human's age > hilarity ensues

This really deserves a digital solution. Let me get a government account and generate tokens that websites can ingest to confirm I'm an adult (and other optional details about me). Having to use passports or poor solutions like face scanning isn't good enough. I guess the reason they don't do this is because they fear the cost, anything governments price up these days seems to be in the billion range. So the politici…

My understanding has been that any form of national ID (beyond a passport) is a complete non-starter in US political discourse, and it's all handled at the state level. Not so?

Re: Users claim Discord's age verification can be tricked with video game characters

#150

Post by zahlman »

isoprophlex wrote: post #120

"Open your mouth to verify your age" Not that different from "Drink a verification can to continue". Hilariously dystopian.

Part of the point of the "verification can" story is that users were being forced into additional consumption (in multiple senses).
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