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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#141

Post by esseph »

tshaddox wrote: post #65
katmannthree wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you're going to carry, you should choose something that's safe to carry with a round chambered (i.e. not a Sig P320). There are countless videos showing real-world examples of defensive handgun use. One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. The extra second it takes to rack the slide and chamber a round can be the di…

> One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. I would be surprised if this is true for the majority of situations. I'm sure there are situations where you have very little time, but also many situations where the additional time it would take to chamber a round is negligible.

Most states prevent you from drawing without firing, because it is considered brandishing / threatening.

So you either draw and fire and call the police and tell them what happened, or you don't and just... deal with the consequences of whatever happened instead.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#142

Post by lenerdenator »

giantg2 wrote: post #36
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

Why would it be crazy when they're completely separate systems?

Usually, when a company makes something good, the things they make that are similar to that thing are also good.

Conceptually, the P365 and the P320 are very similar. Semiautomatic, striker-fired, polymer-framed, tilting-barrel centerfire pistols with replaceable serialized fire control modules. One's just bigger than the other. The guts of it are what changed, and you wouldn't think it'd be too hard to implement the P365's striker system within a larger pistol.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#143

Post by djoldman »

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#144

Post by TheFreim »

mywittyname wrote: post #98
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but having a round chambered can be advantageous in a self-defense scenario, where every second counts. Having to think to rack the slide before firing could be enough for your opponent to get to you first.

People take this "every second counts" idea as though it's axiomatic. I've been in my fair share of sus situations in my life and they've been either telegraphed (people starting with yelling, then intimidation, then getting into personal space) or ambiguous. I was recently at a block party with a loud DJ, and some guys fired several rounds and it took minutes to figure out what was going on. Even the first responder…

> I've been in my fair share of sus situations in my life and they've been either telegraphed (people starting with yelling, then intimidation, then getting into personal space) or ambiguous.

The problem is that in a "sus situation" you would not be able to chamber a round without brandishing the firearm, which in many situation would be illegal in a merely "sus" situation where you don't have a clear threat (brandishing laws, intimidation, etc). This is why many self-defense advocates encourage people to carry with a round chambered while also carrying something like pepper spray for situations where lethal force is not necessary.

> So I personally think people with good situational awareness have plenty of time to act appropriately in a variety of common dangerous situations.

Most people I've encountered who carry concealed would agree that you should try to keep yourself from being in common dangerous situations. The reason they carry is not for the avoidable situations, since they'd obviously just avoid them, but for the unavoidable situation. The vast majority of people who carry concealed never need to use their firearms, the point is to be ready to defend oneself and others if the situation should arise.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#146

Post by rconti »

kstrauser wrote: post #44
giantg2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be crazy when they're completely separate systems?

All I know about this situation is what I've read in these comments just now. I don't have a dog in this hunt. But I think the surprise is that a company who makes something considered highly reliable would make a similar item that the Air Force claims is killing their airmen. It'd be like Toyota making another pickup, the Bellevue, that likes to randomly explode. Sure, things happen, but Toyota ? Huh, that would be…

I mean, the new Toyota Tundra seems to have lots of problems with its V8, and I'm not sure people call that _crazy_.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#147

Post by why_at »

esseph wrote: post #141
tshaddox wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One common thread is that there's virtually no time between when you realize you're going to need your sidearm and when you need it. I would be surprised if this is true for the majority of situations. I'm sure there are situations where you have very little time, but also many situations where the additional time it would take to chamber a round is negligible.

Most states prevent you from drawing without firing, because it is considered brandishing / threatening. So you either draw and fire and call the police and tell them what happened, or you don't and just... deal with the consequences of whatever happened instead.

I know only an average amount about guns/gun laws (which is to say, not very much), but this seems pretty off to me.

If someone is going to attack me with a knife, but then I draw a gun and they run away, surely that's not illegal because I didn't shoot them.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#148

Post by koolba »

djoldman wrote: post #143
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

A thousand rounds is not that much. A standard box has 50 rounds, if you fire four boxes in a weekend, you can easily go through a thousand rounds over a month.

Now at $.25-.$30 / round, this does add up to an expensive hobby.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#149

Post by esseph »

OneMorePerson wrote: post #68
homefree wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was in the holster, most people don't teach that the muzzle direction rule applies (since in the holster it's supposed to be inert). A lot of carry methods have the muzzle pointing at things you would not want it pointing at when unholstered.

Yeah agreed. If people taught this than thigh holsters would be out (muzzle direction when sitting down), so would shoulder holsters. Pretty reasonable to expect a gun to not go off randomly, especially when reliable drop safety mechanisms have been around for a long time.

Thigh holsters suck anyway, the only people that use them are people that have never had to run in them.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#150

Post by dankwizard »

djoldman wrote: post #143
TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

i liberate a LOT of places
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