Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 193 posts

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#141

Post by owenversteeg »

avidiax wrote: post #54
tuatoru wrote: post #53

In my trade economics textbook years ago it was stated that the cleared customs cost of an imported good is no more than 30% of its final consumer price, and more typically 10%. The rest is inland logistics, retail costs, and marketing. Further to that, 80% of the economy is services or otherwise has nothing to do with imports. Tariffs are not affecting haircuts or yoga classes or bank fees. Seems to me like tariffs…

Right, but if you double the cleared customs cost with a 100% tariff, many of those additional costs are levied as a constant margin, which tends toward doubling the retail price. You might argue that the retail channel can eat the difference, but it doesn't make sense to make the same absolute margin on goods that are subject to volatile tariff policies. It makes it hard to predict how many units will sell, how much…

>Right, but if you double the cleared customs cost with a 100% tariff, many of those additional costs are levied as a constant margin, which tends toward doubling the retail price.

I’m sure you can find short term examples of this, but in the long run consumer products tend towards a pretty “fair” price given the cost of retail, marketing, shipping, returns etc - all of which are things that do not anywhere near double when you pay a tariff. Your fat margins are someone else’s opportunity; walk around Walmart or Home Depot or Amazon and you won’t find a lot of fat margins. So no, you won’t double retail prices.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#142

Post by thaumasiotes »

gtowey wrote: post #15
thaumasiotes wrote: post #5

"Not Foreign Companies"? They can both pay. Taxes are negative-sum.

They will not. Because the sellers can sell to another country without the tariff. American buyers have no alternative.

If selling to another country was just as profitable as selling to America (pre-tariff), they would have already been doing that. You're saying they are paying, but you're labeling paying as "not paying".

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#143

Post by ath92 »

elevation wrote: post #136

Supply side economics, which aims to stimulate growth by reducing costs for industry, is jeered today as “trickle down economics”; it’s considered regressive because the benefits are concentrated for suppliers while the benefits to consumers never materialise. This policy has “failed every time it’s tried!” Tariffs are the antithesis of supply side strategy. Yet tariffs, which increase costs for suppliers like any ot…

Both of these can be true. Compare the US to countries like China for example, which has had success growing its economy with more state led companies and financing through state owned banks. It’s not perfect, but compared to western countries, less of the profits go to the private sector, and it allows the government to more directly chase long term strategic goals.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#144

Post by ashoeafoot »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #49
linotype wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the point. It’s not crazy. Tariffs are regressive taxes. Rich people buy more stuff, sure, but as a percentage of their income they net out as beneficiaries of shifting taxes from income to spending. It’s totally rational if you want to increase taxes on the bottom 80% to subsidize the top 20% (and especially top 5%).

Which matches the rest of the seeming plutocratic moves afoot in the past 6 months. Taking huge chunks out of American opportunism (defunding science, health care, education, space, and so much else), blowing a huge chunk out of social welfare programs: that's going to cause amazing downgrades for most people. Paths to success closed, cost of getting by vastly higher. (All while walking over all over habeus corpus, w…

Just another xerox of europe which is just another xerox of the middle east which is just a xerox of the local minima..

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#145

Post by Dig1t »

mrheosuper wrote: post #135
Dig1t wrote: post #128

It is a tax on businesses who import things right? Basically exactly the same as corporate income tax, which Trump cut in his first term. Now the tax is being raised on companies who import goods made overseas, but companies who make their product in the US don’t have to pay the tax. If you are usually the type of person that supports taxing the rich and taxing large businesses, shouldn’t tariffs be something that yo…

only if the rich do not pass the cost down to the bottom 80%

Right but isn’t that then a case against all taxes on corporations?

You could say that corporate income taxes are also bad because they will be passed on to the consumer in the exact same way a tariff is.

A tariff is just a normal tax which only applies to imported goods.

All taxes on businesses will be passed on to the consumer in the same way any expense is.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#146

Post by DangitBobby »

fsckboy wrote: post #100
supertrope wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An N95 mask made in China costs $0.30. One made in the USA costs $1.00. A 25% tariff was enacted by executive fiat. The made in China mask is still cheaper than the USA made one. Few hospitals buy American. PPE manufacturers in Malaysia win.

and China is therefore punished in the context of treating US imports to China in an unfair way; this was one of the goals, so you're saying "policy win"?

Very telling that you think "punishing" China is a win for us. We are mostly just fucking ourselves, proving that we can't be trusted as a global trading partner, and driving other countries straight into China's arms.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#147

Post by DangitBobby »

Dig1t wrote: post #128

It is a tax on businesses who import things right? Basically exactly the same as corporate income tax, which Trump cut in his first term. Now the tax is being raised on companies who import goods made overseas, but companies who make their product in the US don’t have to pay the tax. If you are usually the type of person that supports taxing the rich and taxing large businesses, shouldn’t tariffs be something that yo…

It's not as simple as "companies who make their product in the US don't have to pay the tax". Companies that import to assemble here or import raw materials to manufacture here also pay tariffs.

And no, thinking "tax the rich" is a good idea is not the same thing as thinking it's a good idea to add taxes that are passed directly to consumers. You're doing this narrative slight of hand where you are placing taxes that would successfully target the wealthy in the same bucket as ones that are easily passed on to consumers. Don't do that if you want a constructive conversation.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#148

Post by omnimus »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #140
K0balt wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it was MIT that ran a study a couple of decades ago that proved that people were unable to influence policy through voting because the effectiveness of lobbying put the vote inputs below the noise floor?

Yup. Our votes basically don't matter because our democracy is captured by lobbyists

Seems like the votes somehow matter. If Trump didn’t win there wouldn’t be tarifs right?

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#149

Post by avidiax »

owenversteeg wrote: post #141
avidiax wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but if you double the cleared customs cost with a 100% tariff, many of those additional costs are levied as a constant margin, which tends toward doubling the retail price. You might argue that the retail channel can eat the difference, but it doesn't make sense to make the same absolute margin on goods that are subject to volatile tariff policies. It makes it hard to predict how many units will sell, how much…

>Right, but if you double the cleared customs cost with a 100% tariff, many of those additional costs are levied as a constant margin, which tends toward doubling the retail price. I’m sure you can find short term examples of this, but in the long run consumer products tend towards a pretty “fair” price given the cost of retail, marketing, shipping, returns etc - all of which are things that do not anywhere near doub…

Just because some retailer makes 3-5% profit overall, doesn't mean that the gross margin on each product is 3-5%. It very much isn't. I've heard doubling the import cost is typical. This allows enough margin for holding stock, the warehouses, floor space, lighting, staffing, transportation, insurance, promotion, clearance, etc., which eat up most of this gross margin.

The fair price accounts for all of these costs, which are significant, even at scale.

Re: US companies, consumers are paying for tariffs, not foreign firms

#150

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

xnx wrote: post #32
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, on to the next example: Brazilian coffee.

Some enterprising company needs to brand yaupon for the maga crowd.

It needs a name change.

Much like "Chinese gooseberry" was rebranded as "Kiwi fruit".

Maybe "Ilex vomitoria" -> "Patriot puke". "Spew American!".

Post reply on HN