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Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

antirez.com

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Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#141

Post by simonw »

dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

The models I can run locally aren't as good yet, and are way more expensive to operate.

Once it becomes economical to run a Claude 4 class model locally you'll see a lot more people doing that.

The closest you can get right now might be Kimi K2 on a pair of 512GB Mac Studios, at a cost of about $20,000.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#142

Post by righthand »

positron26 wrote: post #129
righthand wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s weird that programmers will champion paying for Llm but not ad-free web search.

Ad-free search doesn't by itself produce a unique product. It's just a product that doesn't have noise, noise that people with attention spans and focus don't experience at all. Local models are not quite there yet. For now, use the evil bad tools to prepare for the good free tools when they do get there. It's a self-correcting form of technical debt that we will never have to pay down.

“To prepare for the good free tools”

Why do I have to prepare? Once the good free tools are available, it should just work no?

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#143

Post by simonw »

dakiol wrote: post #37
azan_ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paid models are just much, much better.

Of course they are. I wouldn't expect otherwise :) But the price we're paying (and I don't mean money) is very high, imho. We all talk about how good engineers write code that depends on high-level abstractions instead of low-level details, allowing us to replace third party dependencies easily and test our apps more effectively, keeping the core of our domain "pure". Well, isn't it time we started doing the same wit…

> I'm not talking about MCP, but rather an open source tool that can plug into either free and open source LLMs or private ones.

I have been building that for a couple of years now: https://llm.datasette.io

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#144

Post by righthand »

haiku2077 wrote: post #109
righthand wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s weird that programmers will champion paying for Llm but not ad-free web search.

I pay for search and have convinced several of my collaborators to do so as well

I think the dev population mostly uses free search, just based on the fact no one has told me to “Kagi it” yet.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#145

Post by bluefirebrand »

webappguy wrote: post #134
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

I personally can’t wait for programming to ‘die’. It has stolen a decade of my life minimum. Like veterinarians being trained to help pets ultimately finding out a huge portion of the job is killing them. I was not sufficiently informed that I’d spend a decade arguing languages, dealing with thousands of other developers with diverging opinions, legacy code, poorly if at all maintained libraries, tools, frameworks, e…

Feel free to change careers and get lost, no one is forcing you to be a programmer.

If you feel it is stealing your life, then please feel free to reclaim your life at any time.

Leave the programming to those of us who actually want to do it. We don't want you to be a part of it either

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#146

Post by bluefirebrand »

jstummbillig wrote: post #76
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

> Programming used to be (and still is, to a large extent) an activity that can be done with open and free tools. Since when? It starts with computers, the main tool and it's architecture not being free and goes from there. Major compilers used to not be free. Major IDEs used to not be free. For most things there were decent and (sometimes) superior free alternatives. The same is true for LLMs. > The excuse "but you…

> Major compilers used to not be free

There's never been anything stopping you from building your own

Soon there will be. The knowledge of how to do so will be locked behind LLMs, and other sources of knowledge will be rarer and harder to find as a result of everything switching to LLM use

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#147

Post by lbrito »

webappguy wrote: post #134
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

I personally can’t wait for programming to ‘die’. It has stolen a decade of my life minimum. Like veterinarians being trained to help pets ultimately finding out a huge portion of the job is killing them. I was not sufficiently informed that I’d spend a decade arguing languages, dealing with thousands of other developers with diverging opinions, legacy code, poorly if at all maintained libraries, tools, frameworks, e…

Maybe it's just not for you.

I've been programming professionally since 2012 and still love it. To me the sweet spot must've been the early mid 2000s, with good enough search engines and ample documentation online.

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#148

Post by bgwalter »

johnfn wrote: post #51
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it not be that those positive experiences are just shining a light that the practices before using an LLM were inefficient? It’s more a reflection on the pontificator than anything.

Sure, but even then the perspective makes no sense. The common argument against AI at this point (e.g. OP) is that the only reason people use it is because they are intentionally trying to prop up high valuations - they seem unable to understand that other people have a different experience than they do. You’d think that just because there are some cases where it doesn’t work doesn’t necessarily mean that 100% of it…

"Redis for AI is our integrated package of features and services designed to get your GenAI apps into production faster with the fastest vector database."

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#149

Post by haiku2077 »

righthand wrote: post #144
haiku2077 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay for search and have convinced several of my collaborators to do so as well

I think the dev population mostly uses free search, just based on the fact no one has told me to “Kagi it” yet.

When I need a facial tissue I ask for a Kleenex even if the box says Puffs. Because who says "pass me the Puffs"?

Re: Coding with LLMs in the summer of 2025 – an update

#150

Post by simonw »

glitchc wrote: post #66
dakiol wrote: post #25

> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4 Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third part…

I'm certain these are advertorials masquerading as personal opinions. These people are being paid to promote the product, either through outright cash, credits on their platform or just swag.

I recommend readjusting your advertorial-detecting radar. antirez isn't taking kickbacks from anyone.

I added a "disclosures" section to my own site recently, in case you're interested: https://simonwillison.net/about/#disclosures

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