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Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

americansunlight.substack.com

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Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#141

Post by tclancy »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #136
imiric wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the bubble does pop, which I think is inevitable, there will be many stories like this one, and a lot of people will be scammed, manipulated, and harmed. It might take years until the general consensus is negative about the effects of these tools. All while the wealthy and powerful continue to reap the benefits, while those on slightly lower rungs fight to take their place. And even if the public perception sh…

We got the boring version of the cyberpunk future. No cool body mods, neon city scapes and space travel. Just megacorps manipulating the masses to their benefit.

In retrospect, it should have been obvious. I guess I should have known it would all be more Repo Man than Blade Runner. I just didn’t imagine so many people cheering for the non-Wolverines side in Red Dawn.

(Now I want to change the Blade Runner reference to something with Harry Dean Stanton in it just for consistency)

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#142

Post by tempodox »

The term “AI” has by now been thoroughly bastardized by every grifter on the planet. It means nothing any more, except that you're being duped. Which is all you need to know if you have a single brain cell's worth of critical thinking left.

LLMs can be entertaining if their output doesn't have to make sense or contain only truth. Otherwise, their fitness for any purpose is just a huge gamble at best.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#143

Post by contrast »

0x0203 wrote: post #121
dns_snek wrote: post #9

If actions by these bad actors accelerate the rate at which people lose trust in these systems and lead to the AI bubble popping faster then they have my full support. The entire space is just bad actors complaining about other bad actors while they're collectively ruining the web for everyone, each in their own way.

It's mostly bad actors, and a smattering of optimists who believe that despite its current problems, AI will eventually and inevitably get better. I also wish the whole thing would calm down and come back to reality, but I don't think it's a bubble that will pop. It will continue to get artificially puffed up for a while because too many businesses and people have invested too much for them to just quit (sunk cost fa…

“the bubble won't pop, but deflate into a wrinkled 10 day old helium balloon”

Love it :)

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#144

Post by agentcoops »

anal_reactor wrote: post #77
dns_snek wrote: post #9

If actions by these bad actors accelerate the rate at which people lose trust in these systems and lead to the AI bubble popping faster then they have my full support. The entire space is just bad actors complaining about other bad actors while they're collectively ruining the web for everyone, each in their own way.

This whole attitude against AI reminds me of my parents being upset that the internet changed the way they live. They refused to take part in the internet revolution, and now they're surprised that they don't know how to navigate the web. I think that a part of them is still waiting for computers in general to magically disappear, and everything return to the times of their youth.

Indeed — however it’s interesting that unlike the internet, computers or smartphones the older generation, like the younger, immediately found the use of GPT. This is reflected in the latest Mary Meeker report where it’s apparent that the /organic/ growth of AI use is unparalleled in the history of technology [1]. In my experience with my own parents’ use, GPT is the first time the older generation has found an intuitive interface to digital computers.

I’m still stunned to wander into threads like this where all the same talking points of AI being “pushed” on people are parroted. Marcus et al can keep screaming into their echo chamber and it won’t change a thing.

[1] https://www.bondcap.com/report/pdf/Trends_Artificial_Intelli...

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#145

Post by tempodox »

0x0203 wrote: post #121
dns_snek wrote: post #9

If actions by these bad actors accelerate the rate at which people lose trust in these systems and lead to the AI bubble popping faster then they have my full support. The entire space is just bad actors complaining about other bad actors while they're collectively ruining the web for everyone, each in their own way.

It's mostly bad actors, and a smattering of optimists who believe that despite its current problems, AI will eventually and inevitably get better. I also wish the whole thing would calm down and come back to reality, but I don't think it's a bubble that will pop. It will continue to get artificially puffed up for a while because too many businesses and people have invested too much for them to just quit (sunk cost fa…

> AI is the new crypto.

But it's also way worse than cryptocurrencies, because all the big actors are pushing it relentlessly, with every marketing trick they know. They have to, because they invested insane amounts of money into snake oil and now they have to sell it in order to recover at least a fraction of their investments. And the amounts of energy wasted on this ultimately pointless performance are beyond staggering.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#146

Post by fresh_broccoli »

raincole wrote: post #102
hamilyon2 wrote: post #75

I am questioning, how is this news? What about the other terabyte of text influenced by bias and opinion and human nature and clearly wrong, contradicts itself or in some other way very arguable. Framing publishing falsehoods on internet as attempts to influence LLMs is true in same sense that inserts in a database attempts influence files on disk. The real question is who authorized database access and how we believ…

The example in this article is particularly funny. Pravda was founded in 1912, predating the internet, and had been Soviet's propaganda machine for its whole existence. One needs a PhD in mental gymnastics to frame Pravda spreading misinformation as an attempt to specifically groom LLMs.

This article isn't about that newspaper. It's about the "Pravda network", a group of fake news websites, that according to the report linked in the article[1] produced "20,273 articles per 48 hours, or more than 3.6 million articles per year".

Clearly there's no need for "PhD in mental gymnastics".

[1] - https://www.americansunlight.org/updates/new-report-russian-...

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#147

Post by wiseowise »

tempodox wrote: post #145
0x0203 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly bad actors, and a smattering of optimists who believe that despite its current problems, AI will eventually and inevitably get better. I also wish the whole thing would calm down and come back to reality, but I don't think it's a bubble that will pop. It will continue to get artificially puffed up for a while because too many businesses and people have invested too much for them to just quit (sunk cost fa…

> AI is the new crypto. But it's also way worse than cryptocurrencies, because all the big actors are pushing it relentlessly, with every marketing trick they know. They have to, because they invested insane amounts of money into snake oil and now they have to sell it in order to recover at least a fraction of their investments. And the amounts of energy wasted on this ultimately pointless performance are beyond stag…

In what parallel universe do you live where LLMs are snake oil?

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#148

Post by [deleted] »

0points wrote: post #129

> Bad Actors are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods Thats your claim, but you fail to support it. I would argue the LLM simply does its job, no reasoning involved. > But here’s the thing, current models “know” that Pravda is a disinformation ring, and they “know” what LLM grooming is (see below) but can’t put two and two together. This has to stop! We need journalists who understand the topic to write about LLM's, n…

[deleted]

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#149

Post by wiseowise »

agentcoops wrote: post #144
anal_reactor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole attitude against AI reminds me of my parents being upset that the internet changed the way they live. They refused to take part in the internet revolution, and now they're surprised that they don't know how to navigate the web. I think that a part of them is still waiting for computers in general to magically disappear, and everything return to the times of their youth.

Indeed — however it’s interesting that unlike the internet, computers or smartphones the older generation, like the younger, immediately found the use of GPT. This is reflected in the latest Mary Meeker report where it’s apparent that the /organic/ growth of AI use is unparalleled in the history of technology [1]. In my experience with my own parents’ use, GPT is the first time the older generation has found an intui…

> I’m still stunned to wander into threads like this where all the same talking points of AI being “pushed” on people are parroted.

Where else would AI haters find an echo chamber that proves their point?

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#150

Post by DFHippie »

diggan wrote: post #55
barrkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact the goal of Russian style propaganda. You have successfully been targeted. The idea is to spread so much confusion that you just throw up your hands and say, I'm not going to try and figure out what's going on any more. That saps your will to be political, to morally judge actions and support efforts to punish wrongdoers. https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

What you're saying is certainly an established propaganda strategy of Russia (and others), but what parent is saying is also true, "truth" isn't always black and white, and what is the desired behavior in one country can be the opposite in another. For example, it is the truth that the Golf of Mexico is called the Gulf of America in the US, but Golf of Mexico everywhere else. What is the "correct" truth? Well, there…

The US hasn't switched to calling the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. Partisans on the right do this to show their allegiance to Trump. Partisans on the left still call it the Gulf of Mexico to show their opposition to Trump. Big companies that can be targeted by Trump call it the Gulf of America to protect themselves. And most non-partisans still call it the Gulf of Mexico because they're not paying attention and have always called it that (if they have ever spoken of it or know that it exists). I suspect a lot of people call it the Gulf, already an established custom before this idiocy about renaming it, precisely to avoid entangling themselves in the partisan fight.

The US, like other countries, doesn't get redefined with every change of government, and Trump has not yet cowed the public into knuckling under to his every dictat.

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