Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#141

Post by Brian_K_White » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:37 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #101

parpfish wrote: post #63

Decades ago in my first abnormal psych course, the prof warned us that there was an almost iron-clad law that students will immediately start self diagnosing themselves with “weak” versions of every disorder we learn about. In my years since then, it has absolutely held true and now is supercharged by a whole industry of TikTok self-diagnoses. But there are a few things we can learn from this: - if you give people th…

> - if you give people the chance to place a label on themselves to give a name/form to a problem, they’ll take it. This one is widespread among the young people I’ve worked with recently. It’s remarkable how I can identify the current TikTok self diagnosis trends without ever watching TikTok. There’s a widespread belief that once you put a label on a problem, other people are not allowed to criticize you for it. Man…

Oh you have time blindness? How unfortunate! That's just like my check-writing blindness I just got.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#142

Post by mapontosevenths » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

wredcoll wrote: post #130

typewithrhythm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is substantially more going on than "tolerance vs intolerance". We have a huge influx not just because of changing diagnosis standards, but also because the financial benefit for getting a diagnosis has also expanded. The views of people you are trying to label as fascist are more accurately described as individualism vs welfare state.

Ahh.. indiviualism, is that the one where you shouldn't have to help anyone else as long as things are going fine for yourself?

Ayn Rand has a lot of friends here. She also described the neurodivergent as "subnormal" and thought that society should do nothing to help them or the handicapped. Additionally, she believed that "normal" children shouldn't have to ever interact with those who were mentally different as it would harm the "normal" children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1HD8KXn-kI

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#143

Post by dpkirchner » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

hresvelgr wrote: post #53

The lovable aphorisms we had for people with character quirks were largely from our original support systems. What no one is talking about is the reason therapy-talk has become so pervasive is because all those support systems: family, friends, and local communities (religious or otherwise), have all degraded so severely for most that therapy is the only option for reaching out and getting help.

It was also possible to buy afford a house and a small family on a job that doesn't require much training or special skills. It's easier to deal with (often meaning "ignore") undiagnosed mental issues with your own roof over your head.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#144

Post by Retric » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

Mtinie wrote: post #129

Retric wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’t not it, what many disorders are describing isn’t just the obvious symptoms. ICE engines heat up because they burn fuel, but if it’s overheating in normal operation that’s from something else breaking down. Not that people are so simple, but that transition point to disorder often represents a meaningful transition.

An engine is an assembly of parts. When an engine breaks down it does so because it broke down. An engine does not exist without its cylinders, fuel system, gaskets, lubricants, etc. I believe your analogy is flawed. Can you restate your first statement in any other way?

Someone who is clinically depressed isn’t just sad, they are unable to return to normal. Things that help normal people feel better simply fail, it’s a meaningfully different situation. Similarly treatments for depression like electroconvulsive therapy shouldn’t be applied to normal people.

OCD, clinical addiction, etc are all more involved than just feeling the desire to do something. The lack of control is the issue not just the momentary impulse.

Intrusive thoughts are fine, acting on them isn’t.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#145

Post by Tijdreiziger » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #109

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but are you arguing that autistic folks can’t be part of a community, farm, or build a family?

I saw it as arguing that people with autism, ADHD, etc wouldn't be ignored, beaten, or killed, as seemed to be the argument in the parent comment?

Ah, I see. I think the ‘label’ (ugh – what a terribly awful way to describe a diagnosis) and the beatings are orthogonal, though.

In my parents’ time in a (then) Dutch colony, nobody was diagnosed with anything (that was only for crazies), but all the men knew how being hit with a belt felt (daughters were spared, from what I’ve been told). Self-medicating with alcohol and beating your kids if they ‘misbehaved’ was just the done thing, as far as I’ve been told.

This is to say that anyone who showed (what we would now identify as) neurodivergent behaviour probably would’ve been beaten, but this then wouldn’t have precluded them from going on to start a family and business (and maybe beat their own kids).

Actually, this is probably still how it works in many parts of the world. Even here in the Netherlands, beating your children was only outlawed as recently as 2007.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#146

Post by jaredklewis » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

zug_zug wrote: post #76

parpfish wrote: post #63

Decades ago in my first abnormal psych course, the prof warned us that there was an almost iron-clad law that students will immediately start self diagnosing themselves with “weak” versions of every disorder we learn about. In my years since then, it has absolutely held true and now is supercharged by a whole industry of TikTok self-diagnoses. But there are a few things we can learn from this: - if you give people th…

It's interesting because there are two diametrically opposed ways to interpret what you said One is - everybody thinks they have disorders, so just ignore that feeling it'll mess with you. The other is - everybody thinks they have minor version of disorders, because we all do, we live on continuums, and therefore we should probably all think about it more

> The other is - everybody thinks they have minor version of disorders, because we all do, we live on continuums, and therefore we should probably all think about it more

What if the first part of this is true (we all have a smattering of disorders), but thinking about them more just makes things worse?

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#147

Post by Mtinie » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:41 AM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #123

borski wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing you have ADHD, childhood trauma, attachment issues, etc. is useless if that knowledge does not enable you to take action or if you don't intend to take action. That’s not actually true, and misses the point. Knowing you have ADHD, alone , helps you stop blaming yourself and hating yourself for those things that are caused by the ADHD. It doesn’t excuse it, but understanding that those things aren’t moral fa…

I understand what you're saying, but experience has taught me that many many many people use whatever the thing is (trauma, ADHD, whatever) as an excuse to act however they want whenever they want. It becomes a crutch, or a security blanket to let them just be okay with wallowing in the negativity and externalizing every problem. There has to be a happy medium. I have some neuro issues, and yet I understand that whil…

Experience has taught me that your assertion is from a privileged position. Congratulations for being closer to the neuro-populous side of the spectrum. Your experiences can only represent your unique case.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#148

Post by Spivak » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:42 AM UTC

Mtinie wrote: post #136

typewithrhythm wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is substantially more going on than "tolerance vs intolerance". We have a huge influx not just because of changing diagnosis standards, but also because the financial benefit for getting a diagnosis has also expanded. The views of people you are trying to label as fascist are more accurately described as individualism vs welfare state.

I can assure you that from my singular anecdotal experience that a diagnosis does not imbue economic and financial benefit.

I can second the assertion. It's absurd that people really believe folks are getting benefits from having a mental disorder. It's literally the "welfare queen" nonsense just directed at a new group.

You don't even get social benefits, no one excuses your behavior just because it has a label. You get told it's your fault for not managing your disorder properly. Have you seen how we treat people with visible, obvious, undeniable disabilities? Like shit.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#149

Post by 8note » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:42 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #48

Gigachad wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent I think it’s valid though. The inability to want to sit in a chair and reorganise spreadsheets for 8 hours straight isn’t a disability, it’s a natural response of your brain telling you that this activity sucks and you should get up and move. Combined with the change in society where most active jobs are being replaced with sitting down at a computer.

This isn't really my original point but the reason I dislike the "you don't have ADHD you have capitalism" meme is that ADHD's intentionality symptoms isn't about attention but about self control[0] So if you "really actually" have ADHD[0], that isn't just manifesting in not getting work done, it's manifesting in saying things before speaking, issues with addiction, issues with self-management leading to hygiene issu…

the idea of "its capitalisms fault" is that capitalism is responsible for placing these "self control" constraints on people.

capitalism is the thing making too much choice, and to many choices over time.

capitalism set the context for you snapping at your friend, where you are doing work you dont want to to avoid being homeless, while they are doing different work and you feel like its unfair that their work is different from yours.

if you werent fighting your friend to pay off some capitalist to pay them the most rent, you wouldnt be snapping at them

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#150

Post by vitro » Mon, Jul 07, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

Sometimes I think about what I've read in a book about Japan.

Something along the lines that Japanese people are analog while Westerners are digital.

We try to explain everything, every emotion, feeling, how things are. But sometimes talking about things strips them of their mystery, of the unknowns. We talk too much and get entangled in meanings and what was formless and fluid before suddenly becomes defined and limited.