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Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

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Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#141

Post by pesus »

pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

This is only anecdotal, but probiotic supplements absolutely had a large impact on my social anxiety. I can't remember for the life of me where I heard it, but I specifically looked for ones that with strains were "dirt-based" - PB-8 is the one I currently take. Looking back, I realized just how directly getting anxious was tied to having an upset stomach for me. The first week or so was a bit rough, but after that it's been smooth sailing. The supplements are so cheap that I think it's worth trying for a bit. Kombucha/other fermented foods may also have a positive impact.

Caveat: I have never been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, so things may different in that case.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#142

Post by McAlpine5892 »

Tarsul wrote: post #40

I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…

Most of my adult life I've suffered from DPDR. In recent years I've been able to get somewhat of a handle on it.

While I never pinned down the cause exactly, my talk therapist and I came to the realization that some meals would trigger it. Usually those meals were obviously bad for my health, so I started avoiding them.

> This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety

Why I commented. DPDR is in the same box as anxiety and, yeah, I could literally feel this weird pressure in my head. An actual physical sensation. Seems like we had different cause and side effects but it's so good to read there's someone else out there.

Glad you found something that worked for you. There's so much we don't know about our bodies.

---

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization-derealizatio...

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#143

Post by Geee »

ac29 wrote: post #135
Geee wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this one person who claims to have found out that theses probiotics need to be amplified into a megadose, and subsequently they cured themselves from social anxiety. I'm not sure if there are other people who have replicated, but the initial report seems trustworthy. See https://pdfcoffee.com/experimental-treatment-for-social-phob...

Aside from the other red flags in that link, the author claims to be able to get rid of SAD symptoms in "about 45 minutes" which strongly suggests a placebo effect to me (or at least not an effect from changes in their microbiome).

Yeah, that's odd for sure.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#144

Post by Y_Y »

edwcross wrote: post #77
cjbgkagh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most direct substitution was cheese, lactose does not appear to have the same effect on me as fructose or sucrose. I mostly eat kale for vegetables, this also helps with subclinical insulin resistance and inflammation. I think roasting vegetables may end up being too sweet. I did an extended 5 day water fast to kick start the microbiome changes I undertook it as an experiment and the effectiveness in lifting brai…

Would you mind citing which kind of cheese you eat? Because much cheese has little to no lactose, and also goat lactose does not necessarily have the same effect as cow lactose. Finally, the fats and proteins in cheese affect digestion and possibly sugar absorption.

> Lactose is a disaccharide composed of galactose and glucose and has the molecular formula C₁₂H₂₂O₁₁.

What could be different?

Do you mean that relative amount of lactose? I believe it's that's not different in the raw material.[0]

[0] https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/goat-milk-versus-cow-milk-a-co...

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#145

Post by Tarsul »

McAlpine5892 wrote: post #142
Tarsul wrote: post #40

I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…

Most of my adult life I've suffered from DPDR. In recent years I've been able to get somewhat of a handle on it. While I never pinned down the cause exactly, my talk therapist and I came to the realization that some meals would trigger it. Usually those meals were obviously bad for my health, so I started avoiding them. > This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety Why I commented.…

Thank you for posting. You made my day as well :)

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#146

Post by bluefirebrand »

replwoacause wrote: post #138
bluefirebrand wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am always cautious about offering any kind of medical suggestions online. Please take this with a grain of salt: I struggled with anxiety and depression, treated with anti-depressants and such After years of that, a doctor suggested I test for ADHD and I got medicated for that after the test was positive After being medicated for ADHD, I had much less anxiety and basically no depression. Turns out that both Anxiety…

I hear this often and am curious about it, as someone with an ADHD-PI diagnosis who has taken nearly every med, ranging from Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, to Strattera and possibly others I can't recall over the past 20 years. I've never felt like any of them had any lasting effect on my anxiety or depression. They all give a temporary relief of some of these symptoms while the drug is in my system, but I al…

> They all give a temporary relief of some of these symptoms while the drug is in my system, but I always return to baseline, which results in a roller coaster effect

I'm sorry, I'm not any kind of medical expert so I can't really say anything useful here

If I did have to guess, I would say that Anxiety, Depression, or all sorts of other things can stand on their own, or be a comorbid symptom caused by something else

In my case it seems like my Anxiety and Depression were at least somewhat caused by my underlying ADHD. Treating ADHD helped me with the anxiety and depression at the same time

But just because it can be this way doesn't mean it has to be. It could be there is something else underlying your other symptoms. Or they just aren't comorbid and need separate treatment

I don't know. I'm sorry to hear you still have some trouble with things though. I hope you keep going and figure them out

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#147

Post by snovv_crash »

esperent wrote: post #116
snovv_crash wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Athletes consume 50g of fructose (and 50g of glucose) per hour. It's actually fairly easy to train yourself to this level.

> Athletes consume 50g of fructose (and 50g of glucose) per hour ...while actively competing in endurance events. They don't do this while sitting on the couch in the evening. And it's very specifically only endurance trained athletes who do this, sprinters would never need to consume that much sugar. It's a valid point though, a sugary snack or sports drink directly before hitting the gym for a hard workout session…

Sure, but that all has nothing to do with digestion, that has to do with blood sugar levels and what your body does with the energy afterwards. Digesting 30g of fructose per day is not any kind of biological limit, in contrast to what GGP claimed.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#148

Post by pogue »

pesus wrote: post #141
pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

This is only anecdotal, but probiotic supplements absolutely had a large impact on my social anxiety. I can't remember for the life of me where I heard it, but I specifically looked for ones that with strains were "dirt-based" - PB-8 is the one I currently take. Looking back, I realized just how directly getting anxious was tied to having an upset stomach for me. The first week or so was a bit rough, but after that i…

Was your anxiety caused by your upset stomach you think? Or was it unrelated?

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#149

Post by esperent »

snovv_crash wrote: post #147
esperent wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Athletes consume 50g of fructose (and 50g of glucose) per hour ...while actively competing in endurance events. They don't do this while sitting on the couch in the evening. And it's very specifically only endurance trained athletes who do this, sprinters would never need to consume that much sugar. It's a valid point though, a sugary snack or sports drink directly before hitting the gym for a hard workout session…

Sure, but that all has nothing to do with digestion, that has to do with blood sugar levels and what your body does with the energy afterwards. Digesting 30g of fructose per day is not any kind of biological limit, in contrast to what GGP claimed.

It's a biological limit without long term health effects, unless you're burning it off with intense exercise.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#150

Post by itsallboutsugar »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #53
Tarsul wrote: post #40

I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...). Thus, I wholly believe thi…

I believe most people are not notability adversely affected by sugar and a small subset of the population, like myself, are acutely affected. The former does not invalidate the latter. Sarah Wilson of “I quit sugar” fame started off with a zero sugar crusade then later ameliorated her advice in an apparent effort to generalize her advice for a wider audience. I think advice should be tailored by conditioning on what…

Thank you, I initially came here to post a comment disencouraging sugar based on my anecdotal experience. It's indeed weird that people I know don't report the same immediate, acute, negative effects that I experience upon sugar consumption. Until now it never occurred to me my experience might not be universal. Curiously I have ADHD too. Maybe there is a link?

In my experience an apple = a bar of chocolate, has the exact same effect, no difference except maybe a bar of chocolate is slightly faster acting. Immediate brain fog, almost like being psuedo-drunk.

I too gave up on fruits after deluding myself for a long time that an apple a day is somehow healthy for me. In hindsight it's crystal clear addiction. I was looking forward the entire day to that moment where I'd 'allow' myself the fruit. I was frequently unable to stop eating after the determined portion.

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